Is it an urban myth...

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I never feel one of these threads is complete without a link to Rivendell Bikes take on the clipless thing:-

http://www.rivbike.c.../the_shoes_ruse

I don't blame the cycling industry, a few quid for pedals or a couple of hundred quid for a pedal/cleat/shoe interface system, it's a no brainer. If you're riding fixed or racing I can see it but, beyond that, it remains a bit of a puzzle, as does the acceptance of falling off.

Just providing a bit of balance :biggrin:

That article is a bit like one of those people who hold up signs saying the End of The World is Nigh. Everyone knows they're wrong but no one could be bothered arguing ;)
 

threebikesmcginty

Corn Fed Hick...
Location
...on the slake
I never feel one of these threads is complete without a link to Rivendell Bikes take on the clipless thing:-
Just providing a bit of balance :biggrin:

Pa-leeze, socks and sandals - obviously a nutter that should be ignored.
 

MacB

Lover of things that come in 3's
That article is a bit like one of those people who hold up signs saying the End of The World is Nigh. Everyone knows they're wrong but no one could be bothered arguing ;)

Maybe, but as I've posted before, you get many claims around the night and day difference and how, once clipless is tried, you'll never go back. That's not my experience, I noticed little difference and certainly far short of what I'd require to justify the hassle and expense. The list of potential negatives is quite impressive, falling off, hot spots, numb feet, knee/leg problems and needing to wear specific shoes to ride. Whereas the positives, though trumpetted, suddenly get rather elusive when specific, quantifiable, gains are queried. One of my reasons for trying clipless was that I wanted to set up a bike as fixed. I tried one a couple of weeks ago on flat pedals and didn't see the problem. Decent grippy platforms and a decent grippy shoe and I was fine, though I did have both front and rear brakes as well. I know that all the negatives, bar falling off, will be blamed on poor equipment, poor fitting or poor pedalling technique. The last makes me chuckle, you need to learn to pedal properly!!!

Again, this is only for balance, I don't expect you to agree I just feel that clipless 'fanboy' base get carried away at times.
:whistle:
 

monkeypony

Active Member
[QUOTE 1134079"]
Is it an urban myth...that everybody has a clipless moment when they first start?
[/quote]


Yes. It really isn't too difficult to remember to unclip before you try and put your foot down. Of course, you wont see people posting about how they went on their ride today and didn't have a moment as it's a bit of a non event.
 
Maybe, but as I've posted before, you get many claims around the night and day difference and how, once clipless is tried, you'll never go back. That's not my experience, I noticed little difference and certainly far short of what I'd require to justify the hassle and expense. The list of potential negatives is quite impressive, falling off, hot spots, numb feet, knee/leg problems and needing to wear specific shoes to ride. Whereas the positives, though trumpetted, suddenly get rather elusive when specific, quantifiable, gains are queried. One of my reasons for trying clipless was that I wanted to set up a bike as fixed. I tried one a couple of weeks ago on flat pedals and didn't see the problem. Decent grippy platforms and a decent grippy shoe and I was fine, though I did have both front and rear brakes as well. I know that all the negatives, bar falling off, will be blamed on poor equipment, poor fitting or poor pedalling technique. The last makes me chuckle, you need to learn to pedal properly!!!

Again, this is only for balance, I don't expect you to agree I just feel that clipless 'fanboy' base get carried away at times.
:whistle:

Well we 'Fanboys' have to face down the Sandal Evangelists :thumbsup: ( I have no idea what that emoticon portrays but it looks right)

I like a captive system whether it be toeclips or clipless, the falling off is over-played (twice in 30 years of cycling have I failed to disengage my feet) compared to the security of not having your feet slip off in the rain, over bumps when you stand up out the saddle (ouch), the feeling of security at speed downhill, honking out the saddle, the extra oomph obtainable honking uphill, not having to constantly adjust your feet to the right place and thereby stop the shifting around on your bike.

All the hotspots, strains, setup are all fixable. That's not to say it's suitable for all purposes or for everyone but by and large it's better for most.
 

MacB

Lover of things that come in 3's
Well we 'Fanboys' have to face down the Sandal Evangelists :thumbsup: ( I have no idea what that emoticon portrays but it looks right)

I like a captive system whether it be toeclips or clipless, the falling off is over-played (twice in 30 years of cycling have I failed to disengage my feet) compared to the security of not having your feet slip off in the rain, over bumps when you stand up out the saddle (ouch), the feeling of security at speed downhill, honking out the saddle, the extra oomph obtainable honking uphill, not having to constantly adjust your feet to the right place and thereby stop the shifting around on your bike.

All the hotspots, strains, setup are all fixable. That's not to say it's suitable for all purposes or for everyone but by and large it's better for most.

Sandal Evangelist, I like it :biggrin:

I totally go along with your personal preferences but would take issue with a couple of other points.

Falling off being overplayed, really? maybe for you but this is one area where the facts are undeniable. Falls occur that would never occur were it not for foot/pedal attachment. Some of these falls will generate injuries and some of these injuries will be serious. You don't have to look far on the web to find examples of broken bones etc. You can also find fatalities where a 'clipless' moment could have been the root cause. Kind of hard to prove as the cyclist is dead but impossible to rule out. I'm especially thinking of clipless moments where a cyclist could topple into a line of moving traffic. You can also add damage to bike and add-ons as well to the possible negatives. I actually think the falling off bit is under, not over, played and there's a very lax attitude towards it from clipless converts. This smacks of bravado in defense of a personal choice rather than a reflection of the reality.

Then there's 'by and large it's better for most' - lots of assumptions in there yet searching on the web doesn't turn up much evidence of this. This is strange in its own right as you'd certainly expect such evidence to be very prominent. But I'll diligently read anything you find and link to. Don't forget that 'most', as a cycling group, exludes pros, top amateurs and wannabes, most riders are utlity, social or a mix of the two. The Rivbikes article specifically exludes road racing from the analysis. During all of my riding I haven't yet had foot pedal slippage and, barring my brief venture into clipless, no problems with hotfoot, knees etc, due to the foot pedal interface.

I think clipless is an excellent system and very appropriate for some riders in some situations. For the rest it's personal preference with any gains immeasurable in comparison to the gains to be had from riding more and losing weight.
 
Sandal Evangelist, I like it :biggrin:

I totally go along with your personal preferences but would take issue with a couple of other points.

Falling off being overplayed, really? maybe for you but this is one area where the facts are undeniable. Falls occur that would never occur were it not for foot/pedal attachment. Some of these falls will generate injuries and some of these injuries will be serious. You don't have to look far on the web to find examples of broken bones etc. You can also find fatalities where a 'clipless' moment could have been the root cause. Kind of hard to prove as the cyclist is dead but impossible to rule out. I'm especially thinking of clipless moments where a cyclist could topple into a line of moving traffic. You can also add damage to bike and add-ons as well to the possible negatives. I actually think the falling off bit is under, not over, played and there's a very lax attitude towards it from clipless converts. This smacks of bravado in defense of a personal choice rather than a reflection of the reality.

Then there's 'by and large it's better for most' - lots of assumptions in there yet searching on the web doesn't turn up much evidence of this. This is strange in its own right as you'd certainly expect such evidence to be very prominent. But I'll diligently read anything you find and link to. Don't forget that 'most', as a cycling group, exludes pros, top amateurs and wannabes, most riders are utlity, social or a mix of the two. The Rivbikes article specifically exludes road racing from the analysis. During all of my riding I haven't yet had foot pedal slippage and, barring my brief venture into clipless, no problems with hotfoot, knees etc, due to the foot pedal interface.

I think clipless is an excellent system and very appropriate for some riders in some situations. For the rest it's personal preference with any gains immeasurable in comparison to the gains to be had from riding more and losing weight.

Well, we risk a Google duel here but a few quick Google's reveal that 'foot spillage' is mentioned in accident reports. It's quite low down the list of causes though but it is mentioned alongside bodily entanglement.

I think we share common ground when it comes to recommending clipless systems, I rarely do, in fact my recommendation of choice is half toe-clips before taking further steps towards a clipless system. it's something people should arrive at of their own volition, neither should they discount old fashioned toe-clips but in fact toe-clips are even harder to master though perhaps easier to get out of in an emergency.

You've really never slipped off a pedal, wow. Slipping was the reason I came to toe-clips myself. I also found a stiff sole to be an amazing benefit even more of benefit than toe-clips.
 

longers

Legendary Member
Yep, I knew him, the ambulance bloke who took him to hospital knew him... The coroner made a very crass remark at his inquest, about him having a good holiday before he died.

I was a bit crass as well earlier in the thread. Sorry, I read it wrong.
 

MacB

Lover of things that come in 3's
Well, we risk a Google duel here but a few quick Google's reveal that 'foot spillage' is mentioned in accident reports. It's quite low down the list of causes though but it is mentioned alongside bodily entanglement.

I think we share common ground when it comes to recommending clipless systems, I rarely do, in fact my recommendation of choice is half toe-clips before taking further steps towards a clipless system. it's something people should arrive at of their own volition, neither should they discount old fashioned toe-clips but in fact toe-clips are even harder to master though perhaps easier to get out of in an emergency.

You've really never slipped off a pedal, wow. Slipping was the reason I came to toe-clips myself. I also found a stiff sole to be an amazing benefit even more of benefit than toe-clips.

Foot spillage as a cause of accidents doesn't surprise me, there are plenty of flat pedals around I wouldn't want to ride on. I would correct my 'no slippage' assertion to one of, not since I moved to a BMX style platform pedal. However, even on rubbish pedals, I've never had serious slippage. But I'm not an agressive style of rider and can't think of any point in time I've tried to sprint.

A problem I have with some of the cage pedals used with toe clips is the serrated edge and poor platform support area. I can see the edge of a Sylvan doing some serious shin damage and I can also see why firmer soles would help with some of these pedals. I have tried SPD, Powergrips, Holdfast, traditional toe clips, half clips without straps and I still have a modern pair of toeclip pedals in reserve in case needed for fixed riding. I also like being able to move my feet around when I ride, quite often moving my foot forward for a long uphill.

I'm sure there are people around riding flat pedals whose riding style would be better suited to clipless. Equally I'm sure, and have witnessed, people riding around on clipless who would do just as well on some decent platforms.
 
Foot spillage as a cause of accidents doesn't surprise me, there are plenty of flat pedals around I wouldn't want to ride on. I would correct my 'no slippage' assertion to one of, not since I moved to a BMX style platform pedal. However, even on rubbish pedals, I've never had serious slippage. But I'm not an agressive style of rider and can't think of any point in time I've tried to sprint.

A problem I have with some of the cage pedals used with toe clips is the serrated edge and poor platform support area. I can see the edge of a Sylvan doing some serious shin damage and I can also see why firmer soles would help with some of these pedals. I have tried SPD, Powergrips, Holdfast, traditional toe clips, half clips without straps and I still have a modern pair of toeclip pedals in reserve in case needed for fixed riding. I also like being able to move my feet around when I ride, quite often moving my foot forward for a long uphill.

I'm sure there are people around riding flat pedals whose riding style would be better suited to clipless. Equally I'm sure, and have witnessed, people riding around on clipless who would do just as well on some decent platforms.

My eldest's knee, after some foot slippage with a very serrated edge pedal, not that I'm advocating toe-clips for 10 year olds.

IMGP0805_resize.jpg
 

manualtypist

New Member
Location
London
Have been clipless for almost a month now. Had two moments where I gracefully lost my balance and fell to the ground whilst still clipped in...thankfully was not moving at the time either (once at side of road the second in cycle advance lane at traffic lights)...second one caused some damage to knuckles...though was more worried about my tights and whether they were laddered or not (nice teal tights are hard to come by). Both times were scary...but I just loosened the tension on the pedals to the lowest setting and things have been fine since (touch wood...really don't want to tempt fate).
Have had a few near moments...but am getting used to it and don't know why I didn't change to clipless sooner.
Though I still find myself needing to mutter to myself 'clip out...don't forget'.

Just keep at it.

Flat pedals with serrated edges caused me far more damage and laddered tights.
 
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