is there any need for these cyclist down threads?

[LLB]

I can't but help do a 'compare and contrast'...





...and I'd agree with porridge (btw, I know llb was talking about motorcycling).

Personally, I think such posts serve a very real and useful purpose in reminding us all that it can happen to us. It is too easy to become complacent and whilst not overstating the risks, there are risks none-the-less.

Well for an inexperienced m/cycle rider (as with an inexperienced cyclist) maneuvering, they are every bit as vulnerable when alongside a HGV as a cyclist.

I guess the difference is that someone who has gone through their bike test will have received adequate training which allows them to see the dangers of such a maneuver, and most cyclists just get on and ride and any training they have received would have been through their car test which would not cover filtering or another vehicle appearing alongside them in their own lane due to the width of a car.

I think my motorcycle training and experience has helped me a lot when it comes to cycling whereas much of my car training is just not relevant by comparison.

 

[rootes]

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/search.php?searchid=1021304

i will take a look at what facts are presented


and for the cases where facts are not known - people should not suggest or lead

perhaps restrict to leaving best wishes for a speedy recovery etc

 

[sternwood]

And the ones involving lorries and railings are worth repeating as many times as possible until nobody thinks to go up the inside of a large vehicle on a corner.

This is a dreadfully designed website, click on "Campaigns":


It's no accident!
1/4 of London cycle deaths in City

In 2004 a quarter of London's cyclist fatalities took place in the City, despite the Square Mile making up just a thousandth of the total area of Greater London. While the rest of London sees improvements in safety due to new 20mph zones and cycle facilities, the Corporation has refused to spend money granted to it by Transport for London. It's time for change before someone else loses their life. more [27/09/04]

http://www.citycyclists.org.uk/

Bridging the Thames Status: ideas should be fed through as part of Opposition to Thames Gateway Bridge Map showing series of proposed cycle/foot bridges (marked in green) downriver of Tower Bridge

 

[LLB]

Cool now that is more like it - proper facts!

Unsunstantaited claims with no evidence, citing an incident that never happened you mean?

Another profile

 

[sternwood]

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/search.php?searchid=1021304

i will take a look at what facts are presented


and for the cases where facts are not known - people should not suggest or lead

perhaps restrict to leaving best wishes for a speedy recovery etc

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23493320-details/Family+of+Cambridge+student+killed+on+bike+hit+out+at+police/article.do


Mr Carta, a bus safety examiner, said: "Vinnie was an experienced cyclist. He was on his new bike, wearing a helmet and reflective clothing. He was on a well-lit route, which he took all the time. He knew what he was doing.
"The driver has changed his story several times. We think he was in a rush to get home, thinking he was coming up to a 60mph road, and just didn't pay attention to the road. Vinnie was flipped in the air and landed on the car.

 

[rootes]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23493320-details/Family+of+Cambridge+student+killed+on+bike+hit+out+at+police/article.do


Mr Carta, a bus safety examiner, said: "Vinnie was an experienced cyclist. He was on his new bike, wearing a helmet and reflective clothing. He was on a well-lit route, which he took all the time. He knew what he was doing.
"The driver has changed his story several times. We think he was in a rush to get home, thinking he was coming up to a 60mph road, and just didn't pay attention to the road. Vinnie was flipped in the air and landed on the car.

sorry but that is an article from the ES () not a full uncut/unedited formal incident report -

not sure about the purpose of your post really

 

[sternwood]

sorry but that is an article from the ES () not a full uncut/unedited formal incident report -

not sure about the purpose of your post really

You said it's not sensible to comment on deaths unless we know the full facts.

That article is a steady rebuttal of what you said.

It is impossible for a driver to collide with a cyclist if both are abiding by the HC. There is no helmet on earth that will prevent injury when hit by a car travelling at 48mph. Cyclists in London are well used to the police ignoring accidents involving cyclists, an unspoken rule seems to be that unless the cyclist is in a wheelchair or a coffin no action is taken. Well done to the parents for pursuing this, it highlights the inaction of the police in handling cycling "accidents". A cyclist abiding by the HC hit from behind is blameless. the driver changed his story several times yet you extend to him the courtesy you withold from cyclists.


no the cool was related to the fact that some said that they had posted up a formal incident report


Which we still haven't seen.

 

[sternwood]

Or consider this rootes:


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...ner's+plea+after+new+cyclist+death/article.do

Particularly shocking in this case is that if the driver had not broken the law by fumbling around for papers in his cab instead of paying due care and attention to the road, Emma would certainly not have been killed. He broke the law and he got away with it. There is nothing “inadvertent” about an action that is unlawful when it has resulted in someone being killed.


What's your opinion?

 

[LLB]

sorry but that is an article from the ES () not a full uncut/unedited formal incident report -

not sure about the purpose of your post really

Who knows what goes on in his head

 

[yenrod]

>is there any need for these cyclist down threads?

No.

Its just 'tabloid like' forum behaviour !

 

[rootes]

sorry the point is an article in the ES is not a full presentation of the facts...

do you undertand the difference between a report in a newspaper and a formal report? seems not

so far it seems no one is actually able to present the actual facts on any of these cyclist down incidents and thus apart from morbid curiosty andgen sympathy

no one can actually learn from the threads...

 

[sternwood]

sorry but that is an article from the ES

Hang on, you accept with gratitude a reference to a death with zero references or substantiations, but refuse to accept a press report, comments from the coroner and the family of the person killed?

do you undertand the difference between a report in a newspaper and a formal report? seems not

What formal report please?


so far it seems no one is actually able to present the actual facts on any of these cyclist down incidents

One again, please do a search on "Inquest"

 

[rootes]

Or consider this rootes:


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23419578-details/Coroner's+plea+after+new+cyclist+death/article.do

Particularly shocking in this case is that if the driver had not broken the law by fumbling around for papers in his cab instead of paying due care and attention to the road, Emma would certainly not have been killed. He broke the law and he got away with it. There is nothing “inadvertent” about an action that is unlawful when it has resulted in someone being killed.


What's your opinion?

do you work for the ES? glad so see that ES is no the formal system of incident reporting in this country - just awaiting their final BA 777 heathrow crash report now that they have taken over from the CAA....

 

[sternwood]

do you work for the ES?

No. It's a crap paper. My question was whether an experienced cyclist doing nothing wrong who is killed by a lorry driver rummaging for papers on the floor of his cab was well served by an inquest that decided a £300 fine and no ban was appropriate, and why you placed your faith in a "formal report" none of us have seen yet.

A partial report and evidence from the court is better than nothing.

 

[rootes]

What formal report please?

erm like the FULL coroners report, police incident report etc you know formal stuff not quoted bits of text in a newspaper edited for sales and news impact