John Higgins the snooker player!!! Bye bye son. Your careers dead

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Shortfall

Über Member
What prompted this thread resurrection?

Ebdon played with such a high level of concentration that he was never a great spectacle. In order to keep everything together, he had to play at a really high level of focus and intensity. That's what the shouting was about at the end of a frame or match he won - it was a release.
A very good classical pianist and a very articulate individual away from the table.
So from a snooker players perspective, Ebdon was a lesson in hard work, focus and determination as opposed to raw talent.

Long post - sorry.

Anyhoo, top of the WPBSA for a long time and 51% ownership of 'Matchroom sport' is Barry Hearn.
Hearn is like a boxing promoter. I cannot stand him. Never did. He was Steve Davis' manager and has built up his position from Davis and a team of notable players of the time.
Hearn has been instrumental in promoting snooker, that there is no doubt and Hearn was instrumental in modernising the old system where if you wanted to be a pro, you had to win one of the major 'Open' events - the UK, the Irish, the Welsh or the WC.
But what replaced this system was chaos, a free for all and the treadmill that replaced it where gaining ranking points is difficult; there are tournaments all over Europe and the far East, means that if you are out of the top 16 and automatic qualification, you will be playing many qualifying rounds and travelling to Belgium or Holland or Germany or even China to generate ranking points. This makes it very difficult for young players in the UK (or anywhere bar China) to be a professional player. Plus, like cricket, there is less and less terrestrial coverage of the game in the world of competing broadcasters where promotion of any sport requires massive funding. The structure to support talent in the UK is severely lacking. There is no realistic structure or plan in situ. Where do you watch the masters or the UK championship? BBC? ITV?
Hearn said only recently (see Stephen Hendry's YT channel 'Cue tips') when Hendry said that he didn't see much potential new world class talent coming through in the UK "...oh there will always be some player that will come along...". The comment is telling: Leaving the future of snooker in the UK to chance is at best naïve and Hearn is not naïve; he's made his money and doesn't care.
I personally do not see any cessation of the demise of Snooker in the UK. They are even talking about holding the WC's in China 'one year'. I wonder when the momentum of TV coverage and money shifts the epicentre of snooker to the far East permanently in the same way China successfully monopolised table tennis in a very short period of time (after Jan Ove Waldner stopped dominating and Europe remained stuck in old systems pf promotion).
In fact, many many top Chinese TT players rarely play abroad unless the WC's are held outside of China (or the Olympics).

As you can tell, I am not optimistic. If you look at the rankings https://www.snooker.org/res/index.asp?template=31 you can see the Chinese players rising to the top but there would be more if many of those players travelled to Europe more regularly. Many players don't need to; there's enough competitions in China to keep the average pro earning:
The World Open
The Wuhan Open
The Shanghai Masters
Xi'an Grand Prix
World masters of snooker and
The international championship
All governed by the CBSA (Chinese Billiards & Snooker Association) who have their own 'CBSA tour' and their own ranking system both professional and amateur.

When Ebdon hit the scene the game had already
moved on from the marathon all night matches dominated by the safety game and negativity. Ebdon played within the rules but for a sport that relies on people paying to watch and by definition advertisers and sponsors wanting to sell their product to them then the style of snooker played by Ebdon was out of time. When Barry Hearn eventually took control of Snooker he saw the writing on the wall. He knew people wanted to watch exciting players and he could sell Ronnie O'Sullivan and his like to sponsors and advertisers and take the sport from being a parlour game played in smokey pubs and clubs to a global audience. It's sad that the game is dwindling in popularity in the UK but that's probably the result of a host of other factors. Hearn will take the game wherever he can make money from it and who can blame him?
 
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Beebo

Firm and Fruity
Location
Hexleybeef
 

Pinno718

Über Member
Location
Way out West
When Ebdon hit the scene the game had moved on from the marathon all night matches dominated by the safety game and negativity.

The 'marathon' games slowly ebbed through the late 80's, long before Ebdon was becoming more successful. Ebdon turned pro in '91.

The late 80's and early 90's saw a change of the old guard principally because of the disappearance of the old green baize to napless cloths which were also faster. Much easier to do high breaks.
If you watched Hendry, he slowly developed an ability to hit high breaks with much more regularity using the pink and blue because of the emergence of napless cloths to which the likes of Davis and co never fully took advantage of. This was also the time that 'Super Crystalate' balls were superseded by Aramith phenolic resin. The difference is night and day.
Higgins, O'Sulivan, Wattana etc followed with a similar style - the game became about a winning break in one visit and has remained so. (The shorter format like best of 9 I do not like TBH).
A player can have a good day with no chance of winning out right but still gets through to the next round. I think first to 7 or 8 is much less susceptible to transient form.
This is an identical problem in the qualifiers for major events.
Many good players have suffered and gone by the wayside due to the shorter formats.
Just like cricket ODI's and 20/20 matches attract a different sort of player.
It's why I love the snooker WC's - it filters out the wannabe's having a one off good day.
Imagine travelling all the way to China and getting knocked out in the first round 5-4 because you had a couple of bad frames/a bad run of the balls in the first session.
 

figbat

Former slippery scientist
What prompted this thread resurrection?
I did a search for an appropriate thread to discuss the Masters and saw the title of this one and thought it appropriate to address the statement that Higgins’ career was over with the fact that nearly 16 years later he not only qualified for the Masters but reached the final, aged 50. I wish my career had ended like that!
 

Shortfall

Über Member
The 'marathon' games slowly ebbed through the late 80's, long before Ebdon was becoming more successful. Ebdon turned pro in '91.

The late 80's and early 90's saw a change of the old guard principally because of the disappearance of the old green baize to napless cloths which were also faster. Much easier to do high breaks.
If you watched Hendry, he slowly developed an ability to hit high breaks with much more regularity using the pink and blue because of the emergence of napless cloths to which the likes of Davis and co never fully took advantage of. This was also the time that 'Super Crystalate' balls were superseded by Aramith phenolic resin. The difference is night and day.
Higgins, O'Sulivan, Wattana etc followed with a similar style - the game became about a winning break in one visit and has remained so. (The shorter format like best of 9 I do not like TBH).
A player can have a good day with no chance of winning out right but still gets through to the next round. I think first to 7 or 8 is much less susceptible to transient form.
This is an identical problem in the qualifiers for major events.
Many good players have suffered and gone by the wayside due to the shorter formats.
Just like cricket ODI's and 20/20 matches attract a different sort of player.
It's why I love the snooker WC's - it filters out the wannabe's having a one off good day.
Imagine travelling all the way to China and getting knocked out in the first round 5-4 because you had a couple of bad frames/a bad run of the balls in the first session.

Mostly agree with that. The players adapt to the conditions and equipment they have at the time which is one of the reasons it's so difficult to compare players from different generations except to say that the best ones would always rise to the top if they were born into a different era. On cricket I agree with you again. I have nothing but admiration for the likes of Geoff Boycott who made the most of his modest talents through sheer hard work and bloody mindedness. The sad truth however is that people these days would.rather watch 20/20 and Baz ball and they wouldn't pay fifty quid to sit and watch Boycott take 2 days to grind out 20 runs.
 
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albion

Legendary Member
Location
Gateshead
Stadium Leisure in Basford, Nottingham still exists though its success always seemed Weatherspoons-ish.
It is now a budget Steakhouse snooker hall.
 

Vapin' Joe

Formerly known as Smokin Joe
Ten years from now there will be few if any non Chinese players in the top ten. That process will gradually kill off viewer interest in this country and the major tournaments are likely to end up in China.
 

Pinno718

Über Member
Location
Way out West
I did a search for an appropriate thread to discuss the Masters and saw the title of this one and thought it appropriate to address the statement that Higgins’ career was over with the fact that nearly 16 years later he not only qualified for the Masters but reached the final, aged 50. I wish my career had ended like that!

Semi's in the world's last year.
What a blue pink and black from Williams though in that final frame.
 

Mad Doug Biker

Banned from every bar in the Galaxy
Location
Craggy Island
One player I grew to dislike was Jimmy White. Not only did he always get so far and them fail at the final hurdle, making him almost impossible to watch, he seemed to encourage his fans to start shouting out, which has morphed into the bloody racket we have now. I mean, FFS!
They all do it now and fans of Ronnie are the worst!

I don't want to hear boozed up fans yelling and shrieking all over the place thankyou very much. 🙄
 
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stephec

Squire
Location
Bolton
Ten years from now there will be few if any non Chinese players in the top ten. That process will gradually kill off viewer interest in this country and the major tournaments are likely to end up in China.

The way things are going you're probably unfortunately right.

Hearn's been trying to get the World Championship away from Sheffield for years now.
 
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