Karen Dee and victim-blaming

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
OP
OP
glenn forger

glenn forger

Guest
HGV drivers do not "routinely stick 2 fingers up to the law". .

https://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/130905_gs_fta-letter_rpt.pdf

When the City of London conducted spot checks on lorries in 2008, 100% (yes, that's right, 100%) of the lorries stopped at random were breaking the law in some way. Spot checks in Wales recently found 80% of all HGVs were breaking the law.

Or, let's just remember Mary Bowers, The Times journalist hit by a lorry in 2011. The driver was on the phone (hands-free) at the time and then "and then failed to put the handbrake on when she was trapped under his wheels". The driver had previously admitted a series of tachograph offences, "including driving a lorry for 20 hours in one day when the maximum is 9 hours". Jurors concluded he had been "too engrossed in a telephone conversation with a work colleague, on a hands-free mobile kit, when he knocked Ms Bowers off her bike". He then tried to deny he'd even been on the phone in the first place and subsequently pleaded guilty to (again!) "driving in excess of the permitted hours".
 

Tcr4x4

Veteran
Location
Gloucester
I'd place bets if the police stopped cars at random there would also be a very high percentage of those breaking the law in some way or another too. I bet there are more car drivers driving with mechanical defects and no insurance than there are HGVs, its just very rare that VOSA and the police target cars in the same way they do for HGVs.

Trucks are inspected every 6 weeks for mechanical defects, so its a very small minority of companies and drivers not following this rule.
 

Brandane

Legendary Member
Location
Costa Clyde

Use of mobile phones, tachograph offences, and speeding, fair enough. But.....

When I go and drive a lorry for a company, I must admit I do not ask to see proof of their insurance. Or their operators licence. Neither do I have the facilities of a weighbridge available to weigh the load. And I don't carry out a full engineers inspection of the truck (a drivers licence doesn't qualify you for that in any case). What I did was a proper check of tyres, lights, engine oil, horn, wipers and washers, brakes, security of trailer couplings, and security of my load.

I would suggest that your gripe is with the haulage companies rather than the actual drivers. You should have made that clearer!
 

Spinney

Bimbleur extraordinaire
Location
Back up north
I think what is missing from your posts, glenn, is the word 'some'.

'Some' HGV drivers appear to routinely stick two fingers......etc.

And Brandane/TCR - are the same regs applied to things like skip lorries, do you know? They seem to be a major cause of complaint.
 
OP
OP
glenn forger

glenn forger

Guest
[QUOTE 2637985, member: 30090"]Thats utter rubbish and is exactly the type of thing among others that is repeated ad nauseum in these sorts of debates.[/quote]

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study

Risky cycling rarely to blame for bike accidents, study finds
Cyclists disobeying stop signal or wearing dark clothing at night rarely cited in collisions causing serious injury

Drivers to blame for two-thirds of bicycle collisions in Westminster

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...icycle-collisions-in-westminster-8602166.html
 

Tcr4x4

Veteran
Location
Gloucester
I think what is missing from your posts, glenn, is the word 'some'.

'Some' HGV drivers appear to routinely stick two fingers......etc.

And Brandane/TCR - are the same regs applied to things like skip lorries, do you know? They seem to be a major cause of complaint.

They have the same regs as everyone else, however most tippers and skips get paid per load rather than per hour, so they do tend to be in a hurry a lot.
I've had many a near miss with skip lorries.
 
OP
OP
glenn forger

glenn forger

Guest
It wasn't clear what you were objecting to. My post made more than one point.

Perhaps you would expect them to have electrified all the mainline railways by now? Maybe they would have constructed a new high-speed north-south rail artery to free up the saturated West Coast Main Line for freight? How about new rail freight distribution infrastructure in urban goods destinations? You would certainly have expected them to look at reforming the planning laws, transport infrastructure, tax and regulation that were making it attractive for cities and businesses to carry on creating new dependencies on cars and hauliers, and unattractive to reduce them — the sort of reforms that would reverse the absurd development that now makes it easier for food stores to create national mega-distribution hubs than to stock the food made down the street.

You certainly wouldn’t expect to see a great shift in modal share towards road haulage. You wouldn’t predict rail freight stagnating for want of line capacity and end-to-end infrastructure. You wouldn’t expect supermarkets entrenchingtheir dependency on long-distance road haulage with ever greater centralisation. You’d never believe that the Royal Mail would abandon those few things that did keep the post moving during the blockade — the Travelling Sorting Office trains, London’s awesome underground Mail Rail, and the simpledelivery bicycle.

http://waronthemotorist.wordpress.com/tag/road-freight/

Alternatives exist. They are indisputably under-utilised.
 
OP
OP
glenn forger

glenn forger

Guest
Someone who knows their stuff wrote:

There is no reason that trucks operated in city centres need a high cab, save that the truck operate at present has to pay a small premium for the low cab designs because they are not a mainstream product from the truck manufacturers - there are just 2 major suppliers in the UK Dennis-Eagle (Elite2) and Mercedes-Benz (Econic). I feel disappointed with my local Council, as they seem to still be buying high level cab refuse trucks, n the pretext that these are cheapest (ie 'best value') for their purchasing regime, but other Councils are taking this detail on board.

The change for London will not be overnight - the london Bus contracts took 5 years to see every London bus fitted with a core level of CCTV coverage, and the LEV zone has had to have a gradual implementation. So perhaps we can also see a 5-10 year plan to eliminate high cab, dangerously poor direct vision, trucks from London's streets, starting now.

To that we might ask that the brain power and capabilities now with TfL's restored Freight Unit are backed with support to deliver facilities to shorten the 60+ mile round trips made by the most damaging type of trucks on the road (DfT figures) which also present the most common type of truck killing cyclists, the 4-axle 32Ton rigid tipper/skip/concrete mixer with a payload of around 20 Tons. Big projects like the Francis Crick site (150 trips per day St Pancras to Rainham for around 2 months to remove excavated material should be moving material to rail (less than a mile) or river (less than 2 miles) where a couple of trains or 1500T on a couple of strings of barges per day would remove a huge amount of damage, pollution and and hazard from the city's roads. i've photographed up to 2500 Tons - equivalent to 125 32Ton trucks (and drivers) passing along the embankment with just 2 'drivers' and hardly noticed by those on the river banks. Daily around 10,000 Tons now moves around London by water, the issue can be tackled with radical and innovative thinking let's see it happen.


There is a wharf with 25T container loading gantry just alongside Cannon Street, and usually a 500T barge alongside - it can only be loaded at high tide as the berth is not piled and deepened for all states of the tide. Currently it is just used to load waste from the city, packed in to containers for loading on the barge. Up to 200T can be shipped from as far up as Battersea, I suspect that in times past the Gas Works at Brentford and the Docks (built by GWR) would have seen 2000T (or at least 2 x 1000T) barges reaching this far upstream. In Paris supermarkets get containers delivered on the Seine. The Regents Canal can manage about 80T per barge, and Kings Place used the canal for materials movement.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...hgvs-not-fitted-with-safety-gear-8797656.html

Why do we have narrow, congested London roads clogged with the most dangerous vehicles slap bang next to a wide, empty, under-used river?
 

deptfordmarmoset

Full time tea drinker
Location
Armonmy Way
[QUOTE 2638062, member: 30090"][/quote]
One of the problems of dismissing posts as utter rubbish is that you've only taken up the question about canals/trains. Have you conceded the point about HGV drivers being mostly at fault, not cyclists? And I'm sure that the same kind of dismissive language was used on the tow-paths and railway sidings in the past.
 

Brandane

Legendary Member
Location
Costa Clyde
Good point Moda. Cos, moving cheese sandwiches about can only possibly be done by vans and lorries.

So once you've employed enough cyclists to distribute 26 tonnes of cheese sandwiches (instead of 1 man in a Tesco truck), who will be emptying your bins? Who will be putting out your fires?
 
Top Bottom