Kinda nervous for tommorrow commuting

[ClichéGuevara]

I take off my cap to you guys who have to cycle in London, or any other city for that matter. I think I am better suited to pottering around in the depths of darkest Yorkshire

Aren't rural roads statistically more dangerous?

 

[Blue Hills]

Aren't rural roads statistically more dangerous?

yes they are.
London cycling is pretty calmed.
Always seems to me that Tower Bridge is the safest bridge to go over - little chance of the cars doing anything unexpected.

 

[taximan]

Oh I don't know about that

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Aren't rural roads statistically more dangerous?

Rural A & B apparently not sure about C roads and unclassified. I doubt they have reliable sample sizes on these minor roads.

 

[Etern4l]

One piece of advice: if your route leads through any remote/quiet/poorly lit sections of the canals or industrial and other potentially dodgy areas (not to mention outright crime hotspots!), steer clear, particularly if you see any suspect types. Google your route from that perspective. Don't assume that it should be OK if you don't look like a worthy target. Your karate won't be much good against 4 armed gangbangers.

 

[fossyant]

One piece of advice: if your route leads through any remote/quiet/poorly lit sections of the canals or industrial and other potentially dodgy areas (not to mention outright crime hotspots!), steer clear, particularly if you see any suspect types. Google your route from that perspective. Don't assume that it should be OK if you don't look like a worthy target.

Erm like most of my route then ! Of the 13 miles I'd consider about 8 of them 'dodgy'. Clayton isn't the most salubrious places. I have a couple of dodgy canal bridges, especially those next to a lock, and in summer there is usually a few guys smoking and drinking under them - I generally go through at a rate of knots. (I appreciate where you are coming from having been attacked on a canal).

We've also a fairly good 'old railway' that runs east/west, about 3-4 miles south of the city, which must stretch 10 miles. It's a bit like the M1 for bikes and pedestrians, called The Fallowfield Loop. It's also got a reputation for muggings despite the relatively high traffic, and even at rush hour, or middle of the day. I've had a colleague nearly jumped, but they just clipped his head as they tried to punch him off his bike - he stopped and was about to give chase, then 'thought about it'.

Cycling in London is far safer then in other big cities, say Manchester. whilst Manchester centre is OK if busy, the main commute roads in and out are pretty bad as we just don't have a critical mass of cyclists so you get 'overlooked'. I've had too many accidents on commuting routes caused by driver's poor attention. You aren't even safe on the cycle lanes as these are generally ignored by drivers as the roads aren't wide enough.

 

[Blue Hills]

Cycling in London is far safer then in other big cities, say Manchester. whilst Manchester centre is OK if busy, the main commute roads in and out are pretty bad as we just don't have a critical mass of cyclists so you get 'overlooked'. I've had too many accidents on commuting routes caused by driver's poor attention. You aren't even safe on the cycle lanes as these are generally ignored by drivers as the roads aren't wide enough.

Agree about the London/Manchester comparison. I do use the A56 sometimes, including the temporary cycle lane (not sure if still there) but did almost get a very extreme clip there once by a van driver overtaking and then exiting just in front of me. Personally I find the centre of Manchester a bit of a pig because of the trams (though I like trams) - I usually try to be on fatter tyres. There doesn't seem to be much cycling infrastructure at all in the centre - I thought they were supposed to be doing something about it?

 

[fossyant]

Agree about the London/Manchester comparison. I do use the A56 sometimes, including the temporary cycle lane (not sure if still there) but did almost get a very extreme clip there once by a van driver overtaking and then exiting just in front of me. Personally I find the centre of Manchester a bit of a pig because of the trams (though I like trams) - I usually try to be on fatter tyres. There doesn't seem to be much cycling infrastructure at all in the centre - I thought they were supposed to be doing something about it?

No, the infrastructure isn't good. You've a lane on Oxford Road that's OK if you are just pootling - really don't want to be doing any speed - use the road as it's busses only now !

I have a bit of a 'pig' getting across the tracks near Piccadilly Station - road route is just clogged and not good for filtering, and the 'shared' path is a pavement, so the 100 yards or so I use to cross the tram tracks, you've got to take slow.

 

[T4tomo]

Oh I don't know about that

https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/beggars-bridge-jpg.628492/

Ah my home "town" bridge. Limber hill home was it @taximan?

 

[Etern4l]

Erm like most of my route then ! Of the 13 miles I'd consider about 8 of them 'dodgy'. Clayton isn't the most salubrious places. I have a couple of dodgy canal bridges, especially those next to a lock, and in summer there is usually a few guys smoking and drinking under them - I generally go through at a rate of knots. (I appreciate where you are coming from having been attacked on a canal).

We've also a fairly good 'old railway' that runs east/west, about 3-4 miles south of the city, which must stretch 10 miles. It's a bit like the M1 for bikes and pedestrians, called The Fallowfield Loop. It's also got a reputation for muggings despite the relatively high traffic, and even at rush hour, or middle of the day. I've had a colleague nearly jumped, but they just clipped his head as they tried to punch him off his bike - he stopped and was about to give chase, then 'thought about it'.

Cycling in London is far safer then in other big cities, say Manchester. whilst Manchester centre is OK if busy, the main commute roads in and out are pretty bad as we just don't have a critical mass of cyclists so you get 'overlooked'. I've had too many accidents on commuting routes caused by driver's poor attention. You aren't even safe on the cycle lanes as these are generally ignored by drivers as the roads aren't wide enough.

Harlesden is really bad:

https://www.standard.co.uk/topic/harlesden

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...run-willesden-junction-harlesdon-b924647.html
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/harlsesden-shooting-cctv-footage-police-b954593.html
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/police-cctv-london-harlesden-old-bailey-b938614.html

Not long ago it was basically a gun crime ghetto warzone. I imagine it would take a massive police deployment in "PC-off" mode to pacify and reclaim the rotten area. Not going to happen obviously, particularly under the current leadership of the city.

If we are looking for comforting comparisons, I would recommend "BAC NORD" / "The Stronghold", which suggests things are even worse in... Marseille!

Edit: Although we might get away with finding solace in the Birmingham situation:

https://road.cc/content/news/birmingham-cyclist-attacked-gang-violent-bikejacking-287081
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/ne...ine-terror-birmingham-canal-towpaths-21870847

Edit 2: I remember reading about a woman getting thrown into the canal, then gangraped after she managed to get out. I thought it was Birmingham, but wait - no, London again (20 years ago though, phew).

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...raped-after-being-thrown-in-canal-706843.html

 

[Etern4l]

"What has West Midlands Police said?​

Police patrols on the Birmingham to Fazeley canal in Erdington have been stepped up and cyclists have been warned to be vigilant after a masked gang robbed two bikes from riders (Image: Erdington Police/West Midlands Police)
Canal towpaths are a priority for high visibility reassurance patrols, according to Sergeant Alan Davis from the Yardley Neighbourhood team.

Requests to cut bushes back on certain pathways have been made to help with visibility and the police are working alongside the Canal and River Trust."

From : https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/ne...ine-terror-birmingham-canal-towpaths-21870847

Well, so much for consoling ourselves with the situation in Birmingham! Never seen any high viz police, community support officers, or due warnings around the canals in London, despite incidents like the below happening:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/cri...-into-canal-in-spate-of-attacks-a3197896.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15937786/womans-body-canal-london-dead/

Anyway, good luck to you @fossyant, and anyone else testing themselves on remote dodgy routes. I had a good run too, but obviously in the hindsight I would not have been using the particularly suspect parts of "green cycleways" (as Grand Union Canal towpaths are designated on the TfL website!!), certainly not at night, no matter how many lumens the bike headlights are packing - it won't help!

 

[Etern4l]

yes they are.
London cycling is pretty calmed.
Always seems to me that Tower Bridge is the safest bridge to go over - little chance of the cars doing anything unexpected.

Yeah, it's really calm over on the towpaths mate I mean seriously, I'm all for reasonably talking up the town, but "pretty calmed" is just not an accurate description, unless perhaps someone's commute is between Ken and Mayfair or Belgravia via the parks! Yes, I'm sure there are far worse places to cycle (I don't know, Cairo or Istanbul spring to mind somehow), but things are far from ideal in Greater London.

 

[Blue Hills]

"What has West Midlands Police said?​

View attachment 631592
Police patrols on the Birmingham to Fazeley canal in Erdington have been stepped up and cyclists have been warned to be vigilant after a masked gang robbed two bikes from riders (Image: Erdington Police/West Midlands Police)
Canal towpaths are a priority for high visibility reassurance patrols, according to Sergeant Alan Davis from the Yardley Neighbourhood team.

Requests to cut bushes back on certain pathways have been made to help with visibility and the police are working alongside the Canal and River Trust."

From : https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/ne...ine-terror-birmingham-canal-towpaths-21870847

Well, so much for consoling ourselves with the situation in Birmingham! Never seen any high viz police, community support officers, or due warnings around the canals in London, despite incidents like the below happening:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/cri...-into-canal-in-spate-of-attacks-a3197896.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15937786/womans-body-canal-london-dead/

Anyway, good luck to you @fossyant, and anyone else testing themselves on remote dodgy routes. I had a good run too, but obviously in the hindsight I would not have been using the particularly suspect parts of "green cycleways" (as Grand Union Canal towpaths are designated on the TfL website!!), certainly not at night, no matter how many lumens the bike headlights are packing - it won't help!

hang about - that first London story is 6 years old.
The second tragic story - woman found dead in canal - no info on how she ended up there.
Yes you need to be careful on towpaths and I wouldn't really normally ride them at/after dusk* but a bit of perspective please.

* I did once do a very long nightime ride fully loaded along canals around and through stoke though - never saw a soul.

 

[Etern4l]

hang about - that first London story is 6 years old.
The second tragic story - woman found dead in canal - no info on how she ended up there.
Yes you need to be careful on towpaths and I wouldn't really normally ride them at/after dusk* but a bit of perspective please.

* I did once do a very long nightime ride fully loaded along canals around and through stoke though - never saw a soul.

Which story? About the cyclist killed by a HGV in Harlesden less than a year ago?
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...run-willesden-junction-harlesdon-b924647.html

Yes, some stories are older than others, it's just the first couple of google hits. I'm sure there are loads more, particularly the less serious cases where people just got mugged or hit by cards. Anecdotes of cyclists suffering in accidents are fairly common in my experience, e.g. a colleague suffered a Central London hit-and-run in December. Obviously, this is unlikely to make an press headline.

* I did once do a very long nightime ride fully loaded along canals around and through stoke though - never saw a soul.

LOL, seriously - once? That proves it then! I got attacked after about 50 rides over the route, probably 15-20 at night. So about 2-6% probability of getting assaulted, depending on how we count. Is this "safe enough"? Hell no, with regular commuting 2-3 times a week, that would mean an assault every couple of months!

BTW The fact that you never saw a soul just means that if you did get assaulted, you would be done - no help would be likely to come your way.

 

[Blue Hills]

Which story? About the cyclist killed by a HGV in Harlesden less than a year ago?
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...run-willesden-junction-harlesdon-b924647.html

Yes, some stories are older than others, it's just the first couple of google hits. I'm sure there are loads more, particularly the less serious cases where people just got mugged or hit by cards. Anecdotes of cyclists suffering in accidents are fairly common in experience, a colleague suffered a Central London hit-and-run in December. Obviously, this is unlikely to make an press headline.



LOL, seriously - once? That proves it then! I got attacked after about 50 rides over the route, probably 15-20 at night. So about 2-6% probability of getting assaulted, depending on how we count. Is this "safe enough"? Hell no, with regular commuting 2-3 times a week, that would mean an assault every couple of months!

i said I wouldn't generally ride such places at night.
Hell I even avoid the Surrey Canal Peckham at night and that's filled in. (I ride it very early in the morning sometimes though - safer I think)
the london story I was referring to was the story you quoted about the bloke chucked in the Grand Union.
6 years old.

Be careful/sensible out there folks - I'll leave you to google horror stories.