Kinesis titanium frame, it was great while it lasted!

[Venod]

I have posted before about my cracked Sunday Cycles (became Sabbath) frame, it was (a very light triple butted frame, the crack was just behind the head tube probably the transition of the butting, a mate at work welded it and I rode it for a while before selling it on, I have had a Kinesis Ti frame and very nice it was too, I sold that on because of the lack of clearance.
Also sold on a Van Nic Chinook because of lack of clearance.
I have a Spa Elan Ti which is notably the heaviest Ti frame I have owned,
I wonder if the quest to save weight is compromising the strength of the tubes.
I also have an OnOne Pickenfanflick Ti which has had some serious abuse, this is also not as light as the one I cracked.
I like Ti for smooth ride coupled with the easy wipe down and it looks like new aspect, no worry about paint damage, my first Ti an Airborne Zeppelin (became Van Nic) is still being ridden by a mate and looks brand new,

 

[SpokeyDokey]

The first response received from Kinesis is to say sorry to see the crack in my titanium frame and very quick to point out that unfortunately the frame is now out of warranty. But if I can send a copy of the receipt (which I can) then they can offer a non-warranty assistance of 25% discount from the cost of a equivalent replacement frame. To be fair no exact figures have been quoted, but they list the equivalent frame on their website as being £2400.

However, I can actually purchase the same frame (and its in stock) from an online retailer cheaper by £80.51 than I can by taking the 25% discount from Kinesis, assuming they are working on the figure of £2400 quoted on the web page?

Poor offer imo.

I'd battle until the bitter end on this one.

 

[cougie uk]

The first response received from Kinesis is to say sorry to see the crack in my titanium frame and very quick to point out that unfortunately the frame is now out of warranty. But if I can send a copy of the receipt (which I can) then they can offer a non-warranty assistance of 25% discount from the cost of a equivalent replacement frame. To be fair no exact figures have been quoted, but they list the equivalent frame on their website as being £2400.

However, I can actually purchase the same frame (and its in stock) from an online retailer cheaper by £80.51 than I can by taking the 25% discount from Kinesis, assuming they are working on the figure of £2400 quoted on the web page?

Blimey. Planet X will do a whole Ti bike for less.

 

[rogerzilla]

They're probably still making a decent profit on the frame after a 25% discount, given that there's no retailer cut. Very poor offer.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

The equivalent frame is my only option to be honest as they no longer manufacture a rim braked titanium frame. The fact that the frame has broken is such a short period of time with not a great number of miles is equally annoying and very disappointing. I accept that when I purchased the frame, I knew it only had a three-year warranty. But being a very fussy person about the fit, based on my current Kinesis aluminum frame I knew that the Kinesis titanium frame would be 100% right for me, sadly I let that cloud my judgement as to the best frame to buy.

But they still only offer a five-year warranty, which given recent events doesn't fill me with the greatest of coincidence to be honest, Reilly and Van Nick both offer lifetime warranty for example.

But if I want that piece of mind, it comes at a cost, circa £2500 plus I then need to upgrade my current group set to hydraulic plus new disc wheels, so add another £2k to the price of the frame maybe?

You'd get a bespoke 953 with rim brakes for about that I think, with similar characteristics and far less risk vs longevity.

 

[AlanW]

I have since challenged the first offer and they acknowledge that yes you can buy the frame cheaper online from a retailer than their initial offer of 25% from the RRP. How dam stupid is that and is nothing short of taking the pi55 to be honest.

They would however like to extend the 25% offer from other items, such as Sector wheels, Thomson parts and Goodyear tyres.

But they went on to add, give them a copy of the receipt and then they will see what they can do, I wait with bated breath.......

 

[SpokeyDokey]

I have since challenged the first offer and they acknowledge that yes you can buy the frame cheaper online from a retailer than their initial offer of 25% from the RRP. How dam stupid is that and is nothing short of taking the pi55 to be honest.

They would however like to extend the 25% offer from other items, such as Sector wheels, Thomson parts and Goodyear tyres.

But they went on to add, give them a copy of the receipt and then they will see what they can do, I wait with bated breath.......

At least you have opened a line of dialogue.

 

[wafter]

Never seen a bike loaded enough to bend though 90 degrees over and over again. But CF failing is now a meme on here so.

Equally I've never seen a fishing rod subject to 5-6000 load cycles per hour of use, or see shock loading commensurate with that experienced by a fork when an 80kg rider strikes a pothole at 25mph.

In other safety-critical applocations CFRP is, at a minimum subject to regular inspection (I believe the aerospace industry use ultrasound for this). Another potentially telling example is pressure vessels used for breathing equipment - while all materials are subject to regular inspection, only CFRP bottles are given a finite lifespan that must not be exceeded; which I believe is typically 15 years. I suspect because for such things inspection is prohibitively expensive and it's cheaper just to bin and replace them.

It's an incredible material in many ways, however I maintain that it's fundamentally inappropriate for safety critical consumer applications.

 

[wafter]

I have since challenged the first offer and they acknowledge that yes you can buy the frame cheaper online from a retailer than their initial offer of 25% from the RRP. How dam stupid is that and is nothing short of taking the pi55 to be honest.

They would however like to extend the 25% offer from other items, such as Sector wheels, Thomson parts and Goodyear tyres.

But they went on to add, give them a copy of the receipt and then they will see what they can do, I wait with bated breath.......

That's unfortunate, if not surprising. I'd be mentioning the words "unfit for purpose" and "Trading Standards" soon..

 

[Cycleops]

Hey @AlanW you're a glutton for punishment if you're willing to take another Ti frame.
Their offer would only be worth considering if it were somewhere north of 50%, even then might not be too wise to take. I guess it's all down to you.
Notwithstanding carbon fishing rods and yachts in the Southern Ocean I should go with another material.
You could go down the 'not fit for purpose ' road but difficult to prove and you might not win.

 

[AlanW]

Hey @AlanW you're a glutton for punishment if you're willing to take another Ti frame.
Their offer would only be worth considering if it were somewhere north of 50%, even then might not be too wise to take. I guess it's all down to you.
Notwithstanding carbon fishing rods and yachts in the Southern Ocean I should go with another material.
You could go down the 'not fit for purpose ' road but difficult to prove and you might not win.

I don't have too much of a problem going with another titanium frame, but Kinesis would certainly not be my first choice unless they make me an offer I cannot refuse, but even then, it would still be a reluctant purchase.

My go to choice would be Reilly, lifetime warranty and claim to never had a warranty claim on any of their titanium frames.

 

[AlanW]

You could go down the 'not fit for purpose ' road but difficult to prove and you might not win.

Probably impossible I would think?

 

[Jameshow]

Carbon fibre racing yatchs break, esp in the Southern Ocean.


View: https://youtu.be/CgI8a-z0OF0

That's the equivalent of taking a 700gms road frame down a downhill course!

 

[ColinJ]

That's unfortunate, if not surprising. I'd be mentioning the words "unfit for purpose" and "Trading Standards" soon..

And the fact that you have an ENORMOUS following among cyclists on social media and feel like adding a signature line to your posts, saying "Kinesis think it is acceptable for their £2,000 frames to fail in less than 5 years with only 11,000 miles ridden"...

 

[vickster]

Probably impossible I would think?

After 6 months, the onus is on the purchaser to prove unfit for purpose unfortunately, so you’ll need independent assessor reports that this is the case