La Vuelta 2013 (24 Aug - 15 Sept) **SPOILERS**

[Stonechat]

The missed test would appear to be a storm in a teacup. Even if the testers didn't screw up (which current evidence suggests they did) one missed test does not carry any sanction.

What about the female british athlete who got a ban for missing a test. She arrived at the trrack for training, found it was in use, so went home. Doping team arrived and she got banned. Name is at the tip of my tongue

 

[Buddfox]

That's kind of what I thought but... is it really accurate, what do the numbers look like for the latter stages & how does it compare to the others ?

On this climb I think he was also aided by a big tail wind. It should also be remembered that on one of the earlyish climbs, he was kind of cunning in that he got away and made a big time gap, best part of a minute, when nobody took him seriously.

Well it appears to be the raw SRM data, but your points on time gap, not being taken seriously etc are valid of course. The average power for the whole stage suggests he would have been fairly fresh towards the end, I think. The tail wind is irrelevant though, the measure is simply a question of power, weight and time. A tailwind would just have meant a lower power required for a certain speed (or a faster speed for whatever power output he could sustain for the climb).

 

[thom]

Well it appears to be the raw SRM data, but your points on time gap, not being taken seriously etc are valid of course. The average power for the whole stage suggests he would have been fairly fresh towards the end, I think. The tail wind is irrelevant though, the measure is simply a question of power, weight and time. A tailwind would just have meant a lower power required for a certain speed (or a faster speed for whatever power output he could sustain for the climb).

I guess I mean if you were desperate then you could edit the SRM file data but that would require going to big lengths..

Yes regarding power, tail wind is not important but it does play a role in judging VAM and anything else based upon timings of the ascent - for example, we saw the times on the Angliru. A good few riders got good times so you wonder
1) were the conditions good (there was a barrier on 1 side of the road that helped contain the crowds for example)
2) as you point out, the average power over what came before might have been on the low side

Horner's team ought to release more data now - they've shown they are kind of ok with it

 

[Hont]

What about the female british athlete who got a ban for missing a test. She arrived at the trrack for training, found it was in use, so went home. Doping team arrived and she got banned. Name is at the tip of my tongue

Christine Ohuruogu - mentioned previously in this thread. It was her third missed test, though. Same in cycling. WADA code is three missed tests in 18 months = automatic ban.

 

[VamP]

Can't comment on the speed/time up the climb so will take your word. Who was fastest curiously? Worth noting that many factors can affect performance on a climb and the overall time is no scientific evidence of doping. Nor is an athletes age.

Many athletes have PB'd after long lay off's as, though they do not have race sharpness, they have fresh legs. A good example would be Niballi as he was far from his best at this Vuelta. Aiming to peak during certain events is also key. You just need to look at Froome at the TDF and compare to his performance in the Tour of Utah. Or his performance at last years tour then the Vuelta. A noticeable difference. Riding one race all year can bring a freshness that is not possible otherwise.

Again though i am not defending him. In fact i don't even like him. I am defending an individuals right to be innocent until proven otherwise. The problem with this is that the finger can be pointed forevermore, and a rider can protest their innocence forevermore, but the only fact based evidence that can be presented to finalise the debate is a positive test. There is no such similar test to prove a riders innocence.

So to summarise Horner is guilty until proven guilty.

Top 10

1. Roberto Heras ——- ESP | 41:56 | 2000
2. Chris Horner ——– USA | 43:07 | 2013
3. Alberto Contador —- ESP | 43:13 | 2008
4. Pavel Tonkov ——– RUS | 43:25 | 2000
5. Roberto Laiseka —– ESP | 43:25 | 2000
6. Alejandro Valverde — ESP | 43:35 | 2013
7. Vincenzo Nibali —– ITA | 43:35 | 2013
8. Juan Jose Cobo —— ESP | 43:53 | 2011
9. Alejandro Valverde — ESP | 43:55 | 2008
10. Roberto Heras ——- ESP | 43:57 | 2002

 

[Noodley]

Christine Ohuruogu - mentioned previously in this thread. It was her third missed test, though. Same in cycling. WADA code is three missed tests in 18 months = automatic ban.

Yep, Offredo from FDJ served a ban due to missed tests

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

And on the track, Grégory Baugé lost all his 2011 prizes for missing controls.

 

[smutchin]

Interesting tweet from Antoine Vayer...

"@festinaboy: If someone interested in. Got the proof Chris is a liar. A liar, and a cheater concerning the data he gave. Less clever Lance. But worse, so"

Hope he has good lawyers!

 

[Crackle]

Interesting tweet from Antoine Vayer...

"@festinaboy: If someone interested in. Got the proof Chris is a liar. A liar, and a cheater concerning the data he gave. Less clever Lance. But worse, so"

Hope he has good lawyers!

Dunno, I'm not really a fan of Vayer and wasn't convinced by his last foray into power data.

 

[smutchin]

The supposed proof is that Horner is lying about his weight (he claims 65kg), ergo his stated W/kg figures are skewed.

Regardless of my own feelings re Horner, I'm not convinced of the scientific rigour of Vayer's claim, tbh.

 

[smutchin]

Dunno, I'm not really a fan of Vayer and wasn't convinced by his last foray into power data.

He does seem to have a natural instinct to lean towards the pointy finger side when interpreting data.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

It turns out that it was not the Spanish testers fault that they couldn't find Horner after the race - apparently USADA did not relay the change of hotel information to the Spanish, and it was hotel staff who leaked the news. So all those online commenters who were blaming the Spanish testers, or the Spanish in general, for either incompetence or worse will have to eat their words now.

The problem with what we now know is that this does not necessarily make it look better for Horner. Did someone in USADA deliberately not relay the information, allowing Horner time to leave before any test? It certainly smells like the kind of tactics Armstrong used to use. Normally, of course, one could just dismiss this kind of thing as a mistake, as all the American fans seem to be doing, but in combination with all the other indications of something not being right with Horner's performance at the Vuelta, everything starts to look suspicious...

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

It turns out that it was not the Spanish testers fault that they couldn't find Horner after the race - apparently USADA did not relay the change of hotel information to the Spanish, and it was hotel staff who leaked the news. So all those online commenters who were blaming the Spanish testers, or the Spanish in general, for either incompetence or worse will have to eat their words now.

The problem with what we now know is that this does not necessarily make it look better for Horner. Did someone in USADA deliberately not relay the information, allowing Horner time to leave before any test? It certainly smells like the kind of tactics Armstrong used to use. Normally, of course, one could just dismiss this kind of thing as a mistake, as all the American fans seem to be doing, but in combination with all the other indications of something not being right with Horner's performance at the Vuelta, everything starts to look suspicious...

Yes, very very convenient that he missed a post-race test and then was immediately on a flight and therefore unreachable.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

It turns out that it was not the Spanish testers fault that they couldn't find Horner after the race - apparently USADA did not relay the change of hotel information to the Spanish, and it was hotel staff who leaked the news. So all those online commenters who were blaming the Spanish testers, or the Spanish in general, for either incompetence or worse will have to eat their words now.

The problem with what we now know is that this does not necessarily make it look better for Horner. Did someone in USADA deliberately not relay the information, allowing Horner time to leave before any test? It certainly smells like the kind of tactics Armstrong used to use. Normally, of course, one could just dismiss this kind of thing as a mistake, as all the American fans seem to be doing, but in combination with all the other indications of something not being right with Horner's performance at the Vuelta, everything starts to look suspicious...

See what that nobber Armstrong has done?!!?

We have become so paranoid RE doping in the sport that it becomes entirely possible that USADA, the outfit responsible for finally bringing to light Armstrongs naughty habits, are capable of assisting a cheat because he is American.

What do USADA have to gain from helping Horner evade one test? What do they have to lose if it ever came out?

I understand the suspicion FM, but speculation such as this could eventually lead us to very far away from where we started - Horner possibly doping.

 

[Strathlubnaig]

That was a great KoM jersey for Edet eh ? More to see from him I think, and the French coureurs in general. Sky had a bit of a flat race all in all, probably part of Brailsfords master plan or diversionary tactics.