Lance Armstrong ends fight against doping charges - will be stripped of Tour de France wins
- Thread starter PBancroft
- Start date
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lukesdad
Guest
Quite so.
shouldbeinbed
Rollin' along
- Location
- Manchester way
Agree. Taking it as read that he did dope and is rolling the dice one last time to try and keep the details suppressed (or had a brain transplant last night to change the habits of a lifetime and jack in a fight he feels justified in) he still rode the other dopers off his wheels.
I don't want to see a cheat win but equally don't want to see one cheat replaced with another. Why expunge Armstrong now he's ceased to fight but not Ullrich who was lucky in his jurisdiction to be able to effectively buy off his charges and see the same unproven but uncontested outcome.
there will be no way of trawling down the finish list to find 7 unimpeachably clean winners from 57th place or so, if there was a single clean rider in any TdF of the period. Asterisk the results close the book and move on, consign Armstrong to the same historical bin as Ullrich, Zuelle and co & hope (trust) that Sky & Garmin etc aren't just more snake oil merchants
Archie_tect
De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
- Location
- Northumberland
They'll be investigating Bob Champion next...
threebikesmcginty
Corn Fed Hick...
- Location
- ...on the slake
Yeah but...
The 'who are they going to give the titles to now though' question is largely irrelevant imho. It's certainly a secondary issue and one that doesn't prevent Armstrong from being stripped of the titles. I think most recognise that the era was tainted but the important thing is to note is that not everyone doped. Punishing dopers is necessary to protect those that play by the rules.
Many people speed in their cars. Is that reason not to prosecute those that do?
Many people speed in their cars. Is that reason not to prosecute those that do?
threebikesmcginty
Corn Fed Hick...
- Location
- ...on the slake
Yeah but...
threebikesmcginty
Corn Fed Hick...
- Location
- ...on the slake
S'alright yello, won't do it again. Promise.
Archie_tect
De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
- Location
- Northumberland
[Don't believe him...]
Aperitif
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- Location
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threeyellosmcginty tries to defend his position once again...
Lance... there can't be many people in the world who can split public opinion so widely. Both loved and admired by many who have taken a passing glance at the enigma while he dominated our minority sport, or who were naively taken in by his sporting and life achievements, yet despised unfortunately by the few who have actually spent time looking at the real picture.
I'm so desperately torn by the whole issue. I came to cycling relatively late. I therefore only watched my first tour 4 years ago in 2009, and loved the spectacle. I enjoyed it so much I started researching past tours and spent hours watching documentaries on youtube. Lance immediately became a hero of mine. It's an incredible story, the tours he was involved in had so much drama, right from the beginning and the sad death of Casartelli, and the heroic solo stage win two days later, the cancer story, the comeback, right up to 2005. The battles with Ulrich, the big german bully versus the american Joe, it was like a camp, lycra clad version of Band of Brothers. I bought his book. I even wore a yellow wristband for a few months, but unfortunately just like the man who inspired them, it withered and broke, and became discarded like Lance surely will now.
I defended Lance to all my non-cyclist friends. I, like many, convinced myself that his was a genuine miracle, I believed what he wanted me to believe. Then I read a thread on this very forum. I saw the strength of feeling against him by my peers, by guys whose posts I respect and trust. Then I read the evidence against him, and one interview in particular with an Australian doctor who has committed his career to the prevention of doping and unmasking of the drug cheats.
I actually just spent 10 minutes finding the link for anyone who's interested, because for me it was what opened my eyes: http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden
I honestly felt sick to the stomach after I'd read it all. Like when you find out someone close has cheated or lied to you, only this is worse. He hasn't just cheated for his own glory, he's betrayed everyone who's ever laid their trust out there especially those who were sick and dying.
Now I know people will say that maybe this wasn't a bad thing. Maybe the hope and strength he gave to some is a good thing, and that he doped at a time when the vast majority doped, so was his advantage all that great? I think I'd actually have more sympathy for that argument than his actual claim of innocence in the face of overwhelming evidence, and the fact that every time he sits there and says he's never touched the stuff it rubs in the hurt that little bit more.
Yet despite all this, I still somehow manage to find a shred of sympathy. When I first found the sport this man (thankfully amongst others) inspired me to get out and ride. There's a well known Lance Armstrong montage on youtube set to a coldplay track that whenever I hear now can't help but want to get on the bike and pedal as hard as I can. Despite my strength of feeling I can still watch the very same clips of those tours and feel just as drawn to them, the drama still encapsulates me, I still admire his riding on those stages. But when I see him sat in a press conference with pathetic lies spilling from his lips I feel dead. Absolutely nothing. So it's this conflict I have that makes this whole issue so difficult. Lance Armstrong the rider versus Lance Armstrong the man.
Let him keep his tours, they're all tainted but so were most of the peleton. Lets just hope that this news today is his first step backwards away from the limelight, and lets hope he takes a few more and keeps whatever scraps of dignity he has left. Let us talk about the new heroes that this year alone the tour and the olympics has created. They're the future, and they're who we should be focusing our column inches on.
I'm so desperately torn by the whole issue. I came to cycling relatively late. I therefore only watched my first tour 4 years ago in 2009, and loved the spectacle. I enjoyed it so much I started researching past tours and spent hours watching documentaries on youtube. Lance immediately became a hero of mine. It's an incredible story, the tours he was involved in had so much drama, right from the beginning and the sad death of Casartelli, and the heroic solo stage win two days later, the cancer story, the comeback, right up to 2005. The battles with Ulrich, the big german bully versus the american Joe, it was like a camp, lycra clad version of Band of Brothers. I bought his book. I even wore a yellow wristband for a few months, but unfortunately just like the man who inspired them, it withered and broke, and became discarded like Lance surely will now.
I defended Lance to all my non-cyclist friends. I, like many, convinced myself that his was a genuine miracle, I believed what he wanted me to believe. Then I read a thread on this very forum. I saw the strength of feeling against him by my peers, by guys whose posts I respect and trust. Then I read the evidence against him, and one interview in particular with an Australian doctor who has committed his career to the prevention of doping and unmasking of the drug cheats.
I actually just spent 10 minutes finding the link for anyone who's interested, because for me it was what opened my eyes: http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden
I honestly felt sick to the stomach after I'd read it all. Like when you find out someone close has cheated or lied to you, only this is worse. He hasn't just cheated for his own glory, he's betrayed everyone who's ever laid their trust out there especially those who were sick and dying.
Now I know people will say that maybe this wasn't a bad thing. Maybe the hope and strength he gave to some is a good thing, and that he doped at a time when the vast majority doped, so was his advantage all that great? I think I'd actually have more sympathy for that argument than his actual claim of innocence in the face of overwhelming evidence, and the fact that every time he sits there and says he's never touched the stuff it rubs in the hurt that little bit more.
Yet despite all this, I still somehow manage to find a shred of sympathy. When I first found the sport this man (thankfully amongst others) inspired me to get out and ride. There's a well known Lance Armstrong montage on youtube set to a coldplay track that whenever I hear now can't help but want to get on the bike and pedal as hard as I can. Despite my strength of feeling I can still watch the very same clips of those tours and feel just as drawn to them, the drama still encapsulates me, I still admire his riding on those stages. But when I see him sat in a press conference with pathetic lies spilling from his lips I feel dead. Absolutely nothing. So it's this conflict I have that makes this whole issue so difficult. Lance Armstrong the rider versus Lance Armstrong the man.
Let him keep his tours, they're all tainted but so were most of the peleton. Lets just hope that this news today is his first step backwards away from the limelight, and lets hope he takes a few more and keeps whatever scraps of dignity he has left. Let us talk about the new heroes that this year alone the tour and the olympics has created. They're the future, and they're who we should be focusing our column inches on.
BluesDave
Formerly known as DavidDecorator
- Location
- The leafy backroads of Surrey.
Its like banning Eric Clapton or the Rolling Stones from playing music beacause they took drugs and makes about as much sense. I don't actually believe Armstrong did take drugs and I think his response to this is extremely mature and dignified. Some people just simply resent the success of others.
Well that's my hap'orth.
Well that's my hap'orth.
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