Let's talk diesel sensibly.

[screenman]

Screenman, you seem very pro tax, im all for paying taxes, but really, we are taxed to hell in my opinion.

It just happens that I feel more taxes would make the country a better place.I certainly do not feel taxed to hell, I also realise that I get a lot of what I pay in taxes back in the way of care and services.

 

[galaxy]

I agree, but its the unfareness in the way some are taxed, some who are not taxed and have never payed in take lots, then we are all taxed through the back door in Stealth taxes that annoy me.

 

[screenman]

Even your stealth taxes benefit most of us in one way or another. As for fairness, I can see your point on that one.

What is a stealth tax?

 

[Levo-Lon]

I can get a return for £47.55 leaving Friday week in the morning and coming back in the evening. Seems a good price to me.

i know, but if your on prime comuter time ? They rob you..

i got 2x first class leave friday return sunday to Edinburgh for 150 all in ..superb

 

[galaxy]

Even your stealth taxes benefit most of us in one way or another. As for fairness, I can see your point on that one.

What is a stealth tax?

Well, in the case of diesel, we may paying more the damage that diesel is causing to the enviroment, now thats fair enough, but in reality the money were paying goes else where, were taxed so many times on the money we have already payed tax on, sometimes we dont even know it as its hidden in a diffrent form.

 

[NorthernDave]

I've got a smallish diesel car. It's VED band A and has stop/start so if it ain't moving, it ain't emitting anything. It's exactly the sort of car the government have been encouraging us to buy with tax breaks and kind words until recently.

Given recent headlines, and to see if it would work for us, for a week before Xmas, me and Mrs ND left the car at home (I drop her at work and pick her up again as part of my commute so for part of the journey we are car sharing).
While there were no major issues, buses and trains running pretty much to time and we managed to get a seat apiece on every journey, it isn't an experiment I'll be running again any time soon.

Reasons? Firstly cost - even buying weekly "discounted" tickets it cost £50 for the two of us - around double the cost of the diesel the car would have used. The other and probably more important reason was the time penalty. Journey times were more than doubled - in the car the morning journey takes 45 - 50 minutes, bus, train and the 15 minute walk from the station to work took an hour longer. The return journey was the similar meaning that we were taking around two hours a day longer to get to and from work, which is ten hours a week and means that we're back in the car from tomorrow. Bear in mind too that the majority of buses we travelled on were a decade old, and the trains were built in the 80s so are unlikely to be 'green' by any current emissions standards.

I know there is the argument that there is more than the cost of diesel to consider when running a car, but given that the car is already bought and paid for, other ongoing costs are minimal.

One final thought - an electric car could probably work for us, but living in a terrace house we have nowhere at home to charge it and there are no public charging points anywhere near where I work that I could use, so until the charging issue is resolved, that won't happen either.

 

[Slick]

I think its only a matter of time before the charge points are addressed, but I know where you are coming from re public transport, nightmare. The car will win every time for most.

 

[Flying Dodo]

I think its only a matter of time before the charge points are addressed, but I know where you are coming from re public transport, nightmare. The car will win every time for most.

That's only if people stay on the treadmill of buying cars. Until people are prepared to think outside of the box and actually get rid of a car, then as you say, a simple trip in a car will always seem cheaper, if you're just factoring in the cost of fuel.

Seven years ago I sat down and worked out what my car had cost me in insurance, MoT, tyres, garage bills etc over the previous few years and worked out it was costing me an average of £200 pm just for the privilege of having it sat on the drive, and that didn't factor in any replacement vehicle cost. Fuel costs were on top.

As I commute by bike anyway (6 miles to work), it was cheaper to get rid of the car and pay for occasional taxis or trains. Shops deliver heavy items, and I can fit a weeks worth of shopping on the cargo bike.

I agree for some people who aren't able to live fairly close to work or in a large city with relatively good transport connections, then they need a car. But for many, they don't actually need a car at all. They just like the instant convenience of it. Bearing in mind around 70% of all car journeys in London and around 55% nationally are less than 5 miles in distance, there are a lot of people who are trapped in their cars in more ways than one.

Until more people do something by reducing their use of cars, then gridlock, pollution and obesity can only get worse.

 

[snorri]

Until more people do something by reducing their use of cars, then gridlock, pollution and obesity can only get worse.

If only the government would take steps to have the motorist pay the full costs to the nation of motoring.

 

[Grant Fondo]

If only the government would take steps to have the motorist pay the full costs to the nation of motoring.

I get the irony... but how sure are you yhat all taxpayers are not paying?

 

[lutonloony]

I did suggest to Mrs LL that she could catch the bus to work instead of car, the doctors reckon must of my wounds should heal

 

[Slick]

That's only if people stay on the treadmill of buying cars. Until people are prepared to think outside of the box and actually get rid of a car, then as you say, a simple trip in a car will always seem cheaper, if you're just factoring in the cost of fuel.

Seven years ago I sat down and worked out what my car had cost me in insurance, MoT, tyres, garage bills etc over the previous few years and worked out it was costing me an average of £200 pm just for the privilege of having it sat on the drive, and that didn't factor in any replacement vehicle cost. Fuel costs were on top.

As I commute by bike anyway (6 miles to work), it was cheaper to get rid of the car and pay for occasional taxis or trains. Shops deliver heavy items, and I can fit a weeks worth of shopping on the cargo bike.

I agree for some people who aren't able to live fairly close to work or in a large city with relatively good transport connections, then they need a car. But for many, they don't actually need a car at all. They just like the instant convenience of it. Bearing in mind around 70% of all car journeys in London and around 55% nationally are less than 5 miles in distance, there are a lot of people who are trapped in their cars in more ways than one.

Until more people do something by reducing their use of cars, then gridlock, pollution and obesity can only get worse.

That seems to me a bit idealistic or maybe even simplistic, if you don't mind me saying so. There's much more to life than work and tesco, and much more to the UK than London and major cities.

 

[Grant Fondo]

I want to teleport myself everywhere with zero embedded carbon

 

[galaxy]

We would be in a diffrent trouble if all of us gave up our cars,vans, motorcycles etc.

 

[Slick]

You know the old saying, if you've got it, a truck brought it.