London-centric: motorbikes in bus lanes

Discussion in 'Advocacy and Cycling Safety' started by Twenty Inch, 23 May 2008.

  1. Twenty Inch

    Twenty Inch New Member

    Behind a desk
    Text of my letter to Boris

    Dear Boris

    I would like to express my disappointment and worry at your recent decision to allow motorcyclists to use bus lanes.

    Bus lanes have been a godsend for cyclists, allowing us to move swiftly and safely through traffic, with only noisy and slow cabs and busses to think of coming up behind us. Motorbikes have been shown in many studies to be more dangerous to cyclists than cars. There are more and more idiots riding scooters, who seem not to have the most basic ideas about road safety. Your decision has increased the likelihood of serious injury or death to cyclists.

    I am sure that you will regret this decision when the first reports of cyclist-scooter collisions and injuries start appearing. In order to ensure that you don’t miss any, I’ll forward them to this email address.


    Sent to:

    This is a severely retrograde step for road safety. Can we get a response going?
  2. mandat

    mandat New Member

    What about the tfl study which showed an improvement in road safety for cyclist, pedestrians & PTW's in the trial areas where bus lanes could be used?
  3. Mister Paul

    Mister Paul Legendary Member

    There's a bloke on safespeed called mandat.

    Is it you?

    Have a search on the site. The bikes in bus lanes argument has been covered in great detail.
  4. Mister Paul

    Mister Paul Legendary Member

  5. zimzum42

    zimzum42 Legendary Member

    I think it's a good idea, should improve things for motorcyclists.....
  6. spindrift

    spindrift New Member

    There isn't one.

    One yesterday, accelerating and doing wheelies. I don't want to share crowded lanes with them, the fact is that motorbikes pose twice the danger to cyclists than car drivers do. This would be a regressive step because the stated aim is to increase cycling, allowing PTWs in bus lanes would DISCOURAGE cycling.

    The claim that on the trial routes the "number of motorcycle collisions fell by 42%" is wrong. Not even the report rejected by Transport for London made such a claim. That leaked report calculated a changed 'rate' of collisions by using traffic data estimated on only one day in a year, those estimates varied wildly by over 100% year by year. Any conclusions drawn from such dodgy data are dangerous nonsense.

    What will happen, I confidently predict, is that if PTWs are allowed in bus lanes then they will start using cycle lanes. They already use ASLs every single freaking day.
  7. Andy 71

    Andy 71 New Member


    I cycle in London, and my experience is that cyclists have much in common with bikers in that cagers seem to be out to kill us all regardless.

    We often complain as cyclists that our voice is not heard and we are demonised. Well, I am an advocate of solidarity with our petrol-engined brothers. The motorcycle lobby is far more powerful, and I can see we have much to gain by us joining forces. We share the same problems and frustrations.

    Neither of us are isolated from the outside world in a steel box. Most bikers I know seldom whinge about cyclists. Yet cagers (I have a car) seem to constantly get away with the old SMIDSY routine, putting it down to just being an 'accident'. One of those things. Wasn't my fault guv. Could have happened to anyone.

    Enough is enough. Let's get the police off their backsides and see some real, substantive prosecutions. Causing death due to lack of due care should be reclassified as manslaughter. Put the onus on the cager to prove their innocence. Let's get that Highway Code re-written to knock out any ambiguity and set out enforceable rules for behaving towards cyclists. No wriggle room.

    So, to me, I have no problem at all with bikers using bus lanes. They are the least of my worries. It's the other authorised users, i.e. cabbies and minimum-wage bus drivers that cause me the most grief.
  8. lynx

    lynx New Member


    If its so bad whay are PTW allowed in bus lanes in westminster, and LB of Richmond. Oh and I forgot to mention a few towns and cities up and down the country such a Bath and Bristol, to name but two.

    Where was the carnage there?
  9. LLB

    LLB Guest

    Don't judge the group by the actions of the individual spinners.
    Motorcycles are at just as much a risk from cars in traffic as cycles, in fact more so as it is much easier to drop a motorcycle, and much more difficult to pick it back up if you get 'brushed' by a car.

    Your attitude to exclude all others from what you see as your own personal lane smacks of nimbyism. It is a shame that they allow the buses and taxis in there isn't it :smile:
  10. Regulator

    Regulator Scourge of stale, pale, male snowflakes.

    You keep making this statement Lynx. It's wrong! PTWs are not allowed in bus lanes in Westminster and Richmond, except where they were part of the study. Bus lanes are controlled by Transport for London - not by the local authority.

    I accept that you have a bias on these matters - but at least get your facts straight.
  11. Mister Paul

    Mister Paul Legendary Member

    That's one, very spurious example of where a biker may be at more risk than a cyclist (and I've never heard of one being squashed while trying to pick up his bike). It's certainly not conclusive proof that bikers are generally at more risk than cyclists.

    You need to take a balanced assessment before you can come up with any kind of generalisation.
  12. LLB

    LLB Guest

    And yet again dismissive of other vulnerable users. You come across as a very selfish road user when you come out with this sort of comment MrP

    It is well established that PTWs are more vulnerable than cyclists despite popular opinion. The stats speak for themselves
  13. Mister Paul

    Mister Paul Legendary Member

    Not dismissive at all linf. It takes nothing away from the vulnerability of PTWheelers. I'm just suggesting to you that you need to get a realistic picture, rather than hoping something to be with dodgy examples.

    Prejudice comes from ignorance. You draw conclusions despite lacking information and being unable to process the information that you are given.

    Have you found any stats for how motorcyclists have been killed on the roads? Have you compared this with the same information for cyclists?

    You need to see the bigger picture. Just because you have some rounded statistic that suggests that one group is more vulnerable on the road, it doesn't mean that they will be more vulnerable in all situations. They may be, but your conclusion is only an ignorant assumption until you have the evidence in front of you.

    I've never been dismissive of vulnerability on the roads. Your claim is just a poor attempt to discredit what I write.
  14. ... and here we go again!:ohmy::sad:
  15. LLB

    LLB Guest

    Just in case you missed it :ohmy:

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