London proposal to ban thousands of lorries

[Starchivore]

I don't think this has been posted yet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37515940

"Thousands of lorries could be banned from London to make the roads safer for cyclists, under plans proposed by London Mayor Sadiq Khan.

He wants a rating system from zero to five stars for heavy goods vehicles based on the driver's level of vision from the cab.

The 35,000 zero star-rated HGVs currently operating in London would be banned by 2020 under the proposals."

"Only those lorries with a rating of at least three stars would be allowed on London's roads by 2024."

"Mr Khan claimed the scheme would result in many lorries being upgraded before the ban comes into place.

He said: "I'm not prepared to stand by and let dangerous lorries continue to cause further heartbreak and tragedy on London's roads.

"The evidence is clear - HGVs have been directly involved in over half of cycling fatalities over the last two years, and we must take bold action to make our roads safer for both cyclists and pedestrians." "

 

[Markymark]

Let's be clear. Nothing is done to save lives. All that is ever done is to make people feel safer to encourage more to cycle. The no1 reason given for people not cycling in London is they don't feel safe. They key word here is 'feel'. I'm not saying this is bad but this isn't about saving lives.

 

[RoubaixCube]

The problem is every much the cyclists fault as the lorries in some cases -- some cyclists will try to squeeze themselves through the smallest gap just to get to the front of the traffic or either misjudge the amount of space needed that a lorry needs to turn left.

Its a lesson that we all (even as seasoned commuters) can learn from -- Just stay the f**k behind lorries unless you know you can safely overtake and dont try to squeeze past them to get to the front of traffic at traffic lights.

 

[Markymark]

The problem is every much the cyclists fault as the lorries in some cases -- some cyclists will try to squeeze themselves through the smallest gap just to get to the front of the traffic or either misjudge the amount of space needed that a lorry needs to turn left.

Its a lesson that we all (even as seasoned commuters) can learn from -- Just stay the f**k behind lorries unless you know you can safely overtake and dont try to squeeze past them to get to the front of traffic at traffic lights.

Any stats to back that up as the stats I've seen show that, yes, it is sometimes the cyclists fault, but more often the driver is to blame. Also, a cyclist 'sneaking up the inside' is actually riding in the provided cycle lane.

 

[Markymark]

[QUOTE 4490651, member: 45"]I'm not sure how you link your view to the story.[/QUOTE]
In what way? We get awful infrastructure designed by idiots to make cyclists feel safe when in reality makes it more dangerous due to the positions they put cyclists in. Safer lorries sounds great. Makes little difference when the driver doesn't give a monkeys. How many of these tragic deaths have been the result of a poor lorry design as opposed to poor driving?

Addressing the awful driving is harder, less popular, but would have a better result.

 

[jonny jeez]

Let's be clear. Nothing is done to save lives. All that is ever done is to make people feel safer to encourage more to cycle. The no1 reason given for people not cycling in London is they don't feel safe. They key word here is 'feel'. I'm not saying this is bad but this isn't about saving lives.

That may be true but there is an awesome message here.

That large vehicles are the danger...not the small vehicles that they hit.

I think that this is a huge change and will promote a shift in public opinion.

That has to be good.

 

[RoubaixCube]

Any stats to back that up as the stats I've seen show that, yes, it is sometimes the cyclists fault, but more often the driver is to blame. Also, a cyclist 'sneaking up the inside' is actually riding in the provided cycle lane.

Theres not always a cycle lane at least not through the routes that i commute

 

[raleighnut]

The problem is every much the cyclists fault as the lorries in some cases -- some cyclists will try to squeeze themselves through the smallest gap just to get to the front of the traffic or either misjudge the amount of space needed that a lorry needs to turn left.

Its a lesson that we all (even as seasoned commuters) can learn from -- Just stay the f**k behind lorries unless you know you can safely overtake and dont try to squeeze past them to get to the front of traffic at traffic lights.

I think lorries 'overtaking' cyclists and then turning left before they've even got past is more of a danger.

 

[Milkfloat]

If it happens, great for Londoners, however the rest of the country will have to deal with old trucks being used in our cities.

 

[Markymark]

That may be true but there is an awesome message here.

That large vehicles are the danger...not the small vehicles that they hit.

I think that this is a huge change and will promote a shift in public opinion.

That has to be good.

Yes, this is good. But the real win that would properly save lives is the driver. This is token safety designed to make people feel safer with a marginal gain.

 

[jonny jeez]

Any stats to back that up as the stats I've seen show that, yes, it is sometimes the cyclists fault, but more often the driver is to blame. Also, a cyclist 'sneaking up the inside' is actually riding in the provided cycle lane.

You and @RoubaixCube both arguing about the same thing here.

Sure some cyclist make daft mistakes.

But a vast...really really vast vehicles, with no impact zones, crumple zones and virtually no vision, shouldn't be acceptable in situations where other road users can be...or can place themselves...at risk.

 

[mjr]

How many of these tragic deaths have been the result of a poor lorry design as opposed to poor driving?

Addressing the awful driving is harder, less popular, but would have a better result.

It's a bit of both. A crap old lorry is difficult to drive well. I was trying to attract the attention of a lorry driver yesterday. I was jumping up and down at the left side but no joy. I had to walk forward about ten metres and flash a light before he saw me.

I think about a third of his small high left side window was taken up with mirrors and there were probably headlights of vehicles behind in them. I suspect he'd need to stand up and lean over to see within about ten metres of his wheel. It's just rubbish design. Such lorries should have to have a co driver looking out the left side window in built up areas IMO.

 

[jonny jeez]

Yes, this is good. But the real win that would properly save lives is the driver. This is token safety designed to make people feel safer with a marginal gain.

Again possibly true...and most certainly true outside of the mayors manor where his proposals have no jurisdiction

 

[mjr]

If it happens, great for Londoners, however the rest of the country will have to deal with old trucks being used in our cities.

And more of them, once all the better lorries have to be used in London. It's like how we get crap old buses "cascaded" down to pollute us.

 

[Starchivore]

Andy B'll get the same done for Manchester next, I would reckon, Hopefully.