London riots

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mangaman

Guest
Not so sure on that David, it's been 40 years in the making and the one thing that has 'trickled down' is greed, and profit before all, that's really what's broken society. Or more correctly society was being repaired, and moving on to heights never before reached, and that was all derailed by greed.

If however you mean the likes of Cameron, and his gang, easy to make a Bullingdon gag here, then I would tend to agree. All of the decision makers, of whatever hue, that have pandered to the minority interests of profit for the few, they have a big share of the blame. But the rest of us do as well, we have a vote and a voice but we're either apathetic or bought off by trinkets and baubles.

I can actually applaud the concept of a 'big society', just not the one that Cameron envisages.

My beef with Cameron is his "hug a hoodie" baloney pre-election.

As well as his indifference when the riots began

And then his remarkably sudden return from Tuscany saying - all hoodies should receive the maximum power of the state upon them.

He's either one of the world's greatest chancers (I suspect) or he is stupid.

One suspects he has advisors who told him to hug hoodies, and now tell him they are beyond the pale?

Either way he comes across as someone who can't think for himself.
 

MacB

Lover of things that come in 3's
My beef with Cameron is his "hug a hoodie" baloney pre-election.

As well as his indifference when the riots began

And then his remarkably sudden return from Tuscany saying - all hoodies should receive the maximum power of the state upon them.

He's either one of the world's greatest chancers (I suspect) or he is stupid.

One suspects he has advisors who told him to hug hoodies, and now tell him they are beyond the pale?

Either way he comes across as someone who can't think for himself.

oh, you could be right about Cameron I'm just loathe to try and blame him, or the coalition, for this situation. As I mentioned on another post/thread, it's not as if this arose overnight and it's not as if there's some sort of genetic component to 'badness'. But there is a great clip of Clegg, pre-election, warning that following Tory policies could see rioting and civil unrest as we were seing in Greece. This was, of course, dismissed out of hand...but there you go, that's the way they roll, and I think Labour would have been just as dismissive, this isn't a red/blue thing.

CMD just comes across as a marketing bod to me and, as that's his only working background, it's maybe no surprise. I suppose you can start to make claims about him being unable to heed, or even take seriously, a warning. Clegg and riots, plus everyman and his dog and Coulson. I still don't see any conspiracy but I do see overweaning arrogance, the only one beating him in that respect is BoJo.

I guess I'm saying I view anyone laying the blame for the riots at the feet of the Tories pretty much the same as I see the Tories laying the blame for a global financial meltdown at the feet of Labour.....total hogwash. We can criticise their response, what they say, how quickly they come back off their hols, etc. But let's face it we can all imagine a rosier future but no-one really has a clue how to sort the current and to break the vicous cycle.

My biggest issue, personally, is trying to square away my theoretical understanding with what's actually practical and, of that, what tiny bits may even get enough support to be enacted. Was it the Jesuits? that were meant to be famous for saying give me the child until he's seven and I'll give you the man. My real world experience would indicate that children are, depressingly, already on a certain path by the time they reach the school system, so that's approx age 5. It's not that nothing can be done it's that the effort, and of course resource required, seems to increase exponentially with each subsequent year. By the time people are in young adulthood, often ill equipped to join any form of mainstream society, the task becomes enormous.

Education has always been at the root of it all and I don't mean running schools like bootcamps to churn out little clone products with a solid protestant work ethic. I mean the whole package, what we learn at home, in our communties and within our peer groups as much as what is taught in schools.
 

pubrunner

Legendary Member
Was it the Jesuits? that were meant to be famous for saying give me the child until he's seven and I'll give you the man. My real world experience would indicate that children are, depressingly, already on a certain path by the time they reach the school system, so that's approx age 5. It's not that nothing can be done it's that the effort, and of course resource required, seems to increase exponentially with each subsequent year. By the time people are in young adulthood, often ill equipped to join any form of mainstream society, the task becomes enormous.

Education has always been at the root of it all and I don't mean running schools like bootcamps to churn out little clone products with a solid protestant work ethic. I mean the whole package, what we learn at home, in our communties and within our peer groups as much as what is taught in schools.

I fully agree !

An excellent posting imo - very well put !
 
Just seen Cameron on the box. He makes me feel physically ill. He IMO is the one who has broken our society.

I've been shouting at the radio every time he's been on it tonight, blethering on about how he sees himself as the "leader of a new moral army", for f**k's sake. Well, "Dave", instead of inventing ridiculous titles for yourself and banging on about how the police will sort everything out, how about maybe acknowledging that cutting millions of hundreds of pounds from the police budget may not be quite the great idea it first appeared to be?
 

asterix

Comrade Member
Location
Limoges or York
I find it strange as it is not a word many would associate with this kind of thugery. Have you ever lived through a riot. I have and it is fuc¥ing terrifying.


At the age of 6 or 7 we used to go out and watch the battles between the Cypriot youths vs the British youths They hurled rocks at each other and used catapults. The authorities had to impose a curfew. Later a Cypriot neighbours kid chucked a rock at me quite out of the blue (I had thought they were friendly) and soon we had to leave the town(Nicosia) and live in a rural area. I never remember being terrified, it was exciting! My father was involved in the attempted suppression of EOKA which didn't actually work despite hanging some of the opposition.

I do remember being scared by the noise the wind made blowing through the draughty windows.
 

Gromit

Über Member
Location
York
Maybe our attitude to children needs to change. I don't have any, I find them a bit frighting sometimes as I don't understand them (don't have the female maternal instinct). Its not like I don't have contact with any kids, my sister has four, my partner Bikepete's Brother has two children and a few of my close friends have children too. When I'm asked to play my reaction is that I'm always busy, I don't have time, I'm too tired etc. I hear myself say this a lot. I think a lot of British adults do the too, that is my experience.

Wasn't there someone on CC who said they go to other countries and peoples attitude to children are completely different? Kids get picked up and smothered with kisses from adults. We are unable to do this overhear for fear of being reprimanded as a paedophile.

A lot of the looters and rioters may have no real role models other than some distant pop star who doesn't care a fig about anything other than making more money off them. They get told by their parents to f off when they want to play or need help with their homework. Someone even pointed out that they may have been failed by the education system and be unable to read and write. So its up to us as adults to make sure that their lives improve by going out there and teaching them how to behave. We don't though do we? We teach them how to drink, smoke, take drugs, how to act thuggish. Our television has nothing but violence, sex, drugs on the screen. There are no happy story lines on the soaps as writers prefer to go down the broken home line, even the Archers killed off someone to make a family's life a misery.

I think that its up to us now as adults to change the way we have made society. We are the only ones to blame for the way it has turned out. Stop standing around moaning about the kids of today and make a change. I'm willing to give it a try and stop saying I'm too tired to play.
 

colly

Re member eR
Location
Leeds
At the age of 6 or 7 we used to go out and watch the battles between the Cypriot youths vs the British youths They hurled rocks at each other and used catapults. The authorities had to impose a curfew. Later a Cypriot neighbours kid chucked a rock at me quite out of the blue (I had thought they were friendly) and soon we had to leave the town(Nicosia) and live in a rural area. I never remember being terrified, it was exciting! My father was involved in the attempted suppression of EOKA which didn't actually work despite hanging some of the opposition.

I do remember being scared by the noise the wind made blowing through the draughty windows.

As a kid you might have thought it exciting. I bet your parents were scared though, not for themselves so much as for you.
 

Arch

Married to Night Train
Location
Salford, UK
As a kid you might have thought it exciting. I bet your parents were scared though, not for themselves so much as for you.

That's the whole point - the ones doing it find it exciting, like kids - either they are kids, or they only have the maturity of kids. But even 'sensible' adults can get caught up in hysteria of all sorts - look at the scrums Christmas shopping, or when there's a sale, or some new must have gadget.
 
Maybe our attitude to children needs to change. I don't have any, I find them a bit frighting sometimes as I don't understand them

It's not your fault. (Not safe for work. Or for anyone who doesn't like swearing.)
 

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
all quiet on the South London front last night! Time to get Auntie Maude out of the Anderson shelter!
 

cd365

Guru
Location
Coventry, uk
Apologies if this point was made earlier in the thread but watching the T.V news tonight and listening to the scum involved in these riots/looting, it didn't seem to matter from which part of the country they were from, be it London, Wolverhampton or Manchester, they all sounded the same, THICK. These people ? didn't have a brain cell between them.

+1
 
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