Looking at buying an Ice Sprint, have some questions

[Tango]

When out with guys on standard road bikes, is the sprint 'quick enough' obviously that depends on the fitness of the rider.

How does the vortex compare, it looks a lot quicker, but I imagine it doesn't feel as smooth / comfortable

 

[starhawk]

Well usually the trike is slower uphill but faster downhill but on the plain there is no difference, unless there is a headwind, then the trike is faster

 

[Binka]

Iive finally put my Sprint together and have had a couple of short rides on it. No neck rest and I'm not feeling like I need one but might ask for one for a Xmas present. I'm going to order some side pod bags for it. But love it. Did 7 miles on Saturday and my legs were aching, it is different muscles from an upright. There's no way I could do the same distance on it that I can on an upright at the minute. But I'll get there, going to go out again this afternoon and do about 15 miles. Can't wait!

 

[byegad]

Fitness will come, it took me about 1000 miles to be consistently faster on a two wheel bent than a DF bike. Some get the 'bent legs faster, a few take more miles than I did.

 

[windmiller]

From my experience of riding recumbent bikes and trikes for just 5 years, you can go further and faster on both, sometimes faster even uphill. Yes there is a baptism period but that is just part of the fun.

Back in July I rode to Carter Bar and back from Newcastle on my Sprint 26. This was my second crack at it, the first time I got several miles past Otterburn - but turned back because of the hot weather and I ran out of time to get home.
For the second attempt I was better prepared and made it in good time, although it's not a piece of cake and the A696 can be a busy fast road in places with some blind spots. The traffic treated me with respect and gave me a wide berth apart from one German motorcyclist who tried to pat me on the head at terminal velocity, (probably the grandson of the git who bombed me granny's hoose).

Seriously though I would'nt worry about the safety being seen factor on the road.

 

[byegad]

Totally agree about safety. I use a small flag or Day-Glo ribbons on a flag pole to attract attention in poor visibility. While not necessary on open roads, I find they let the driver behind the car behind me see why the first driver has left a gap between hin and the car in front of me. If you see what I mean.

 

[PloddinPedro]

Fitness will come, it took me about 1000 miles to be consistently faster on a two wheel bent than a DF bike. Some get the 'bent legs faster, a few take more miles than I did.

I've not (yet) ridden a recumbent of any type and I'm intrigued by this concept of 'bent legs'. Some things I've read suggest that the recumbent position is just not as efficient as the upright one and the rider cannot produce the same power as on a DF machine. Reasons are hard to come by, but I've seen it proposed that the heart cannot maintain the same rate of circulation to legs that are raised, so there's less oxygen getting to the muscles. Alternatively, others seem to be saying as byegad does, that it's just a matter of time and practice, in effect a process of adaptation. But if the latter, could it simply be that recumbents are generally harder and there is a period of training/fitness improvement?

 

[Scoosh]

2-wheeled 'bents are certainly different from uprights and, I found, required a fairly lengthy settling-in period, in which I gained balance, competence and confidence . Once I'd got enough, I began to enjoy my 'bent riding. It took me the best part of 6-8 (mainly winter/spring) months. The legs have strengthened too, which helped !

I made a commitment to myself that I would only ride the 'bent until I felt comfortable and confident, then I would allow myself to ride an upright again. It worked quite well and I can now alternate between the two without too much inconvenience/ embarrassment.

 

[PloddinPedro]

2-wheeled 'bents are certainly different from uprights and, I found, required a fairly lengthy settling-in period, in which I gained balance, competence and confidence . Once I'd got enough, I began to enjoy my 'bent riding. It took me the best part of 6-8 (mainly winter/spring) months. The legs have strengthened too, which helped !

I made a commitment to myself that I would only ride the 'bent until I felt comfortable and confident, then I would allow myself to ride an upright again. It worked quite well and I can now alternate between the two without too much inconvenience/ embarrassment.

That's encouraging, but I guess the interesting part is: has your performance on your upright improved - i.e. the 'bent riding has trained you to a higher level of fitness - or, has your ability on the upright remained the same or worsened - i. e. you have adapted away from uprights and towards the 'bent position?

 

[Scoosh]

Well, when I get on the upright, I pedal a bit and think 'My goodness, this is so light and so quick !' - but I guess that's the difference 6-8kg makes ...

Very interestingly, a month or so ago, only having been on an upright a couple of times in the preceding weeks, I commented to myself, 'Gosh, it's very high up here and the view is quite different !'

At that point I knew I am a 'bent rider.

 

[byegad]

I've not (yet) ridden a recumbent of any type and I'm intrigued by this concept of 'bent legs'. Some things I've read suggest that the recumbent position is just not as efficient as the upright one and the rider cannot produce the same power as on a DF machine. Reasons are hard to come by, but I've seen it proposed that the heart cannot maintain the same rate of circulation to legs that are raised, so there's less oxygen getting to the muscles. Alternatively, others seem to be saying as byegad does, that it's just a matter of time and practice, in effect a process of adaptation. But if the latter, could it simply be that recumbents are generally harder and there is a period of training/fitness improvement?

No I totally disagree that recumbents are somehow less efficient. In several posts over the years, keen DF riders converting to recumbents have mentioned that their heart rates are slower on a bent for a given speed. Recumbents use slightly different muscles, so I found the top of my thigh (As I sit on a bent.) ached after riding a bent, this muscle seems to do more work, but equally when I'd got my bent legs, I'd find after several weeks on a bent, the calf on each leg would ache after riding a DF. So it's not intrinsically harder, just uses different muscles.

The fastest unfaired bikes are recumbents, by a good measure so IF there is a slight disadvantage inherent from the riding position then the gain from a more aerodynamic position more than makes up for it.

Where recumbents can be seen to be slower is that they are expensive so tend to be bought, and so ridden, by riders of a certain age, as they tend to have the disposable income to afford them. AND they tend to be heavier than DFs. However there are now several light performance recumbent bikes available and some of the younger riders are remarkably fast on them. Which is why the UCI banned recumbents from competition back in the 1930s where on flatter stages of races, a middle ranking rider was able to pilot the somewhat bulky Mochet recumbent at the head of the peleton who were unable to pass him. 'For kilometre after kilometre'. They promptly banned recumbents.

 

[PloddinPedro]

Thanks byegad, that's actually quite encouraging. As an aging randonneur suffering from increasing difficulty from discomfort on my DF steed, particularly in my hands and perineum**, I'm wondering if I might get more mileage from my declining energies if I switch to a bike more suited to my particular problems. But it's not going to work if there is a fundamental drawback with recumbents arising from some kind of inherent power disadvantage because my power-to-weight ratio is already at the limit of the requirements for the minimum Audax speed. If however, as you suggest, it's a question of adaptation then there is some hope that going laid back could be helpful in my particular circumstances.

The obvious answer is to suck-it-and-see I guess!

** and yes, I've already done the professional bike fit, custom frame, wider rims, larger section tyres at lower pressures, squishy bar tape, Brooks saddle, etc. stuff that is de rigeur for DF comfort; but my state of decrepitude requires still more tricks!

 

[Scoosh]

There are at least 3 recumbent Audax riders here in Scotland (pretty quick too !), Dave McCraw did PBP on a borrowed one, as his own was 'hors de combat' and Alf Chamings and Tim Edwards are always up with the 'fast boys'.

 

[BenM]

has your performance on your upright improved - i.e. the 'bent riding has trained you to a higher level of fitness

Speaking from recent experience - my performance on a DF (Marin Fairfax) has definitely improved after nearly 3 years of riding the 'bent. On Saturday I managed an average of 18mph (I am a bit slow/lazy), over roads between Cranleigh and Bramley, over which I would have expected to make an average of 12mph on the same DF back in the day. Some day soon I will ride the same route on the Orca and see what I can do on that - there is nothing like having a PB to aim at

 

[starhawk]

The question of "bent legs" has been a case of controversy for a long time, some claim that they have them others claim that there is no difference. I lean against the latter, as I had no setting in period.
"Some things I've read suggest that the recumbent position is just not as efficient as the upright one and the rider cannot produce the same power as on a DF machine."
Rather the opposite is true, on a DF you can use the gravity it is said, but to use it you need to climb up on the pedal so you just use a power conversion and don't gain anything extra, on the trike on the other hand you have the seat to work against so you can press more than your weight with your legs which you can't on a DF