Low Level races?

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Rob3rt

Man or Moose!
Location
Manchester
A swing and a miss...
 
What do you suggest? Some more making stuff up as you go and hoping it sticks?


No I didn't say that.


A crash is always human error?


You're doing a Cunobelin: stop reading things selectively and forging a weak argument from that.



I hold many licence types for road vehicles or otherwise. My experience of those vehicles is irrelevant if the cause of an accident - was not me.

I also hold a race licence with Cycling Ireland - This did not prevent last nights crash. My experience could not have prevented last nights crash. Training could not have prevented last nights crash.

The guy I can over(whilst travelling arse over tit) Holds a CI race licence, is a Commisaire Driver for certain races - has years of experience and training. None of these could have prevented last nights crash.

The relatively inexperienced female on the front - ^ has a CI non-comp licence and her first paceline ride was last night. None of these contributed nor prevented the crash.
See what I'm saying? If you think a bit of plastic anyone can apply for(test required or otherwise) somehow has the magical ability to prevent accidents/crashes - or indeed if riding to a cafe every sunday with a club group will prevent anything - you need to take a step back or perhaps find another sport.

No, you're the one reading things that aren't there. Where have I said that learning to ride in a group and working on these skills mean that you are 100% not going to be involved in a crash? I haven't said that but I personally would prefer racing around those who understand basic things like the elastic effect at the rear of the bunch (same as in a club ride), handling a bike/keeping your line round corners with other riders in proximity etc

And no, you didn't say word for word what I said you did, but it's there by implication.
 
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I never said the opposite. Skills are good to have, particularly from a confidence point of view - just don't expect them to make much - if any - difference in a race.



I'm all for preventing accidents and minimising risk. What I don't accept is that teaching someone how to ride in a group on a club run will have any bearing on what they do in a race. It certainly doesn't seem to be working for the pros, who still crash almost routinely. And if it doesn't work for them, what chance have the rest of us got?



DSA focuses on operating a car safely and operating it in traffic safely. However, put 25 cars on the starting grid at Silverstone (all with qualified MSA/FIA licence-holding drivers) and see what happens.

If it doesn't work for the pros then you obviously feel there's no hope at all, in which case, don't race.

What you're suggesting alternatively however is for newcomers not to bother at all with trying to minimise/reduce the risk because it's not 100% solid that you won't crash anyway, which I think is wrong and sends out entirely the wrong message. What do you make of the link I give, from the opinions of those at the higher end of the domestic racing scene?
 

zanda

Member
That's really a lack of common sense and sprinting for 39th position kind of stupidity that comes along with that.

i agree with everythin u have said so far it pretty much makes scence. but as for sprinting for 39 position being stupid??? i think not. if someone is willing to give their all, even if it is for 39th then so what??? how in the hell does that constitute stupidity. im sorry but i think ur comment is out of order. i would sprint for 100th place if that ment i gained a place or 2 to improve on my last event. i think u need to cum down to earth a little, so u may be good at events an finish in a position worthy of sprinting for (what ever the hell that may be in ur rule book) what about people like us who are just trying their best at each even trying to improve by any small amount. that isnt stupidity is hard work an determination an does not deserve ridicule but prais
 
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T.M.H.N.E.T

Rainbows aren't just for world champions
Location
Northern Ireland
i agree with everythin u have said so far it pretty much makes scence. but as for sprinting for 39 position being stupid??? i think not. if someone is willing to give their all, even if it is for 39th then so what??? how in the hell does that constitute stupidity. im sorry but i think ur comment is out of order. i would sprint for 100th place if that ment i gained a place or 2 to improve on my last event. i think u need to cum down to earth a little, so u may be good at events an finish in a position worthy of sprinting for (what ever the hell that may be in ur rule book) what about people like us who are just trying their best at each even trying to improve by any small amount. that isnt stupidity is hard work an determination an does not deserve ridicule but prais
I'm not even going to attempt translating this.
 

Rob3rt

Man or Moose!
Location
Manchester
i agree with everythin u have said so far it pretty much makes scence. but as for sprinting for 39 position being stupid??? i think not. if someone is willing to give their all, even if it is for 39th then so what??? how in the hell does that constitute stupidity. im sorry but i think ur comment is out of order. i would sprint for 100th place if that ment i gained a place or 2 to improve on my last event. i think u need to cum down to earth a little, so u may be good at events an finish in a position worthy of sprinting for (what ever the hell that may be in ur rule book) what about people like us who are just trying their best at each even trying to improve by any small amount. that isnt stupidity is hard work an determination an does not deserve ridicule but prais

LMFAO. That was not only a swing and a miss, but you spun all the way round and fell on your arse on the plate! Get up and brush yourself down, you have 2 swings left!
 

VamP

Banned
Location
Cambs
That's gotta be a wind up!
 
If it doesn't work for the pros then you obviously feel there's no hope at all, in which case, don't race.

I'm fine with the risks - I'm not the one complaining about them :laugh:

What you're suggesting alternatively however is for newcomers not to bother at all with trying to minimise/reduce the risk because it's not 100% solid that you won't crash anyway, which I think is wrong and sends out entirely the wrong message. What do you make of the link I give, from the opinions of those at the higher end of the domestic racing scene?

I think you're misquoting me again. I never said don't bother. The skills are good to have. What I did say however (which is the bit you missed, I think) is that none of that will guarantee you a safe race.

As for the link - there's nothing new in there.
 
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VamP

Banned
Location
Cambs
They key word there is 'random' - you can't stop anyone being a random liability. Like I said earlier - all that is required is a momentary lapse of concentration. I've had them myself. Anyone that says they haven't is probably lying.


Of course you can. People are random in their riding when they don't realise this poses a hazard. It's the sort of ignorance that gets eliminated with experience. I am not talking about momentary lapses but about not being aware that what you are doing is dangerous.

I am not sure why we are debating this; it is obvious.
 
Newsflash - you are just as much of a risk to me in a race as a brand new 4th cat. It works the other way too of course - I am just as much of a risk to you in a race as a brand new 4th cat. In fact, the brand new 4th cat is probably less of a risk to me, because I will be much more aware of him.

Racing brings out the worst in everyone. When was the last time you went out on a training ride and deliberately rode on the opposite side of the road in the face of oncoming traffic? Probably never, is my guess, because it's suicidal. I bet you've done it in a race though - I certainly have. It's a stupid thing to do, but if you are desperate to move up, you will take risks like that.
 

VamP

Banned
Location
Cambs
I am well aware there are risks and I accept them. That's racing. I am no stranger to road rash believe me.

That does not mean that taking reasonable steps to educating oneself about safe and unsafe practices in the bunch will not make that person a safer racer. And I do know for a fact that I feel a lot safer in E123 races than I do in 34s. A whole lot.
 
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