Low Level races?

[Dusty Bin]

The overall probability of a crash, lets say for simplicity is a function of unavoidable incidents and avoidable incidents. Assume unavoidable incidents constant but avoidable incidents to vary with regards level of experience/skill. With increased experience/skill (which can be gained through chaingangs and club rides etc, for example not falling off when someone touches you or leans on you, not overlapping wheels when avoidable, general stuff, nothing fancy etc), this value will decrease. Thus with an increase in experience/skill, avoidable incidents decrease, therefore the overall probability of a crash also decreases!

None of this proposes that avoidable incidents are eliminated, only that they are reduced. Thus reducing the overall probability of a crash.

What are your definitions of avoidable/unavoidable incidents? Give me practical examples from your extensive road racing experience.

 

[Sittingduck]

You are Black & Yellow and ICMFP!

 

[montage]

mate - it's not trash, it's a realistic opinion based on racing for over 20 years, as well as being a member of BC's regional competition and event safety commission, where this sort of stuff comes up all the time. Have you ever even ridden a road/circuit race?

If you are part of a BC regional safety commission, and have this view, then the sport in your area has big issues. I'd be interested to know which region

 

[Dusty Bin]

If you are part of a BC regional safety commission, and have this view, then the sport in your area has big issues. I'd be interested to know which region

Like I said right at the start - skills are good - I don't think anyone would want to discourage people from coming up through the club structure. The only point I have ever made is that crashes will still happen, regardless of the skills you have - and that having the skills will not prevent accidents from happening. You can only do so much to prepare riders for racing. And the best learning environment for racing is racing itself. That's why the 4th category was introduced. Whether 4th cat racing is being run in the most effective way is an entirely different matter.

 

[zizou]

If a newcomer to racing goes out in a chain gang with those that already race it can be of huge benefit. First you get to know the fitness required - this shouldnt be underestimated if you are struggling from the start and are on the limit then mistakes are more likely to happen. It also helps with learning how to follow a wheel at pace and the importance of keeping things smooth. You can also get experience of sprint when it opens up for the final 30 sign. You'll also get told if you have bad habits that could potentially be dangerous.

We all see a certain type of inexperienced racers and how they ride - the problem however is not inexperience itself though (everyone has to start somewhere) it is the ones that think they know best and believe themselves above learning the ropes before jumping in. Those that will put their arms on the bars thinking they are Cancellera, those that are constantly looking back while in the middle of a fast paced bunch rather than concentrating on the wheel in front, those that swerve all over the place when they try and take a drink from their bottle and so on. These aren't mistakes that are down to inexperience of racing these are mistakes that are made because of inexperience in group riding and they've jumped in thinking they know best. By comparision look at how most junior races go even at a young age - these races are far tidier and that is a result of them coming into racing after getting some coaching first.

An experienced rider is just as likely to cause an accident as a first timer. Nothing dumb about that - and it is supported by more evidence than you are ever likely to need. Experience and knowledge both suggest that you shouldn't ride into oncoming traffic, but we have seen two deaths this year when experienced riders did exactly that.

I know of the two accidents in question (one was an elite one was a 4th Cat) i dont know the exact circumstances but if they did cross onto the other side of the road then that was a risk they probably consciously took and unfortunately for all concerned it ended very badly. The inexperienced riders often make their mistakes unconciously from not knowing any better, just thinking they do.

 

[Dusty Bin]

(one was an elite one was a 4th Cat)

3rd cat, not 4th - not that it really matters now.

Group riding, etiquette, all of that is great - it certainly won't do any harm. But it won't stop people turning into idiots when they start racing (and I include myself in that), for the same reason that the driving licence doesn't keep idiots out of cars.

i dont know the exact circumstances but if they did cross onto the other side of the road then that was a risk they probably consciously took and unfortunately for all concerned it ended very badly.

That was precisely the point I was making earlier. The risks you take - or the gaps you go for - in racing are not something you can (or would want to) train for. Nobody would do that in training.