cougie uk
Guru
I've had CF forks for years and years now. Never had a second thought about them. Incredibly unlikely to break.
Man who was paralysed sues Planet X for £10 million
- Thread starter AuroraSaab
- Start date
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I've had CF forks for years and years now. Never had a second thought about them. Incredibly unlikely to break.
slowmotion
Quite dreadful
- Location
- lost somewhere
So have I. That's why this sad tale is particularly shocking.
Alex321
Veteran
- Location
- South Wales
I don't think so, really.
As said above, these things tend to be either fail very quickly, or last for many years, with little relationship to the material used, other than different fatigue rates for different materials.
There aren't all that many forks fail, but when they do, it is usually a manufacturing defect which shows up quickly.
When things 'fail' there are usually a number of failure modes with some more common than others. Engineers will then set up standard tests to assess the potential future life of the component - or have a safety system to prevent catastrophic failure. Think carbon fibre blades on those large wind turbines.
The lack of information on carbon fibre on cycles suggests it is rare enough for people not have looked for the failure modes. But you could always use ultrasonic testing to check for cracks or voids (delamination) if you can find someone to do it.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:STOM.0000004538.77270.1e
If the case comes to court, rather than being settled, it would be interesting to read what the expert witnesses will say about the forks/failure modes.
The lack of information on carbon fibre on cycles suggests it is rare enough for people not have looked for the failure modes. But you could always use ultrasonic testing to check for cracks or voids (delamination) if you can find someone to do it.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:STOM.0000004538.77270.1e
If the case comes to court, rather than being settled, it would be interesting to read what the expert witnesses will say about the forks/failure modes.
Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
Don't let words like Toughroad give you false confidence.
Nowadays frames have a rating that appears to be to be a EU standard or somesuch. If you look on the Frame you'll find a sticker on with with a frame use rating. I don't have one to show here, but it is, IIRC, an Alphabetic letter and number. Like C2.
This indicates what the frame should be used for and more important, what should it not be used for. The very fact that the Toughroad above has a rigid fork already tells me it has a low "ruggability" rating i.e. to be used for paved surfaces with no drop-offs.
wiggydiggy
Guru
Well thats exactly what it was being used for lol Being it was my primary commuter on roads/paved paths, and unless kerbs have become vastly larger I wouldn't count them as drop offs lol!
Giant don't appear to sell this anymore, but their marketing gumpf for the 2022 model states "State-of-the-art microscopic grain manipulation and advanced butting allows for 20 percent thinner and lighter tube shapes than ALUXX SL framesets." so perhaps just as simple as taking the thin and lightness too far.
Bristolian
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Bristol, UK
That's not the way it works in the UK. The retailer is responsibility for providing a product that is fit for purpose and if it's not fit then their insurer picks up the tab. Of course, the insurer has the option to chase the distributor/manufacturer if they so desire. Likewise, it is not the responsibility of the claimant to prove that the forks were defective it is the retailer (or in this case insurer) that has to prove they were.
Ajax Bay
Guru
- Location
- East Devon
n't
Wot e' says.
For confirmation, google 'Paisley Snail' for some stomach churning background.
IanSmithCSE
Guru
- Location
- Worcester, Worcestershire
Good morning,
But as a massively simplified statement if you buy something that fails on its first usage, provided that such usage was reasonable, then the retailer is responsible for replacing it but the manufacturer is responsible for any consequential loss.
It then starts to get complicated with things like was the retailer negligent, mislabelling the product as well as the location of the manufacturer and is it still in business then add in was the product design faulty or was it a manufacturing fault being taken into consideration.
It's even more complicated when a retailer sticks their own brand onto a product, by sticking a sticker with their own business name onto the same product that others sell under the manufacturer's name the retailer assumes some or all of the manufacturer’s liabilities.
So in the case of a Planet X Tempest, Planet X may be both the retailer and the manufacturer.
Bye
Ian
Under English law there are very different responsibilities for the retailer, importer if there was one and the manufacturer and as this is a legal issue it is lawyer territory.
But as a massively simplified statement if you buy something that fails on its first usage, provided that such usage was reasonable, then the retailer is responsible for replacing it but the manufacturer is responsible for any consequential loss.
It then starts to get complicated with things like was the retailer negligent, mislabelling the product as well as the location of the manufacturer and is it still in business then add in was the product design faulty or was it a manufacturing fault being taken into consideration.
It's even more complicated when a retailer sticks their own brand onto a product, by sticking a sticker with their own business name onto the same product that others sell under the manufacturer's name the retailer assumes some or all of the manufacturer’s liabilities.
So in the case of a Planet X Tempest, Planet X may be both the retailer and the manufacturer.
Bye
Ian
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albion
Guru
- Location
- South Tyneside
Unlikely. Bikes compete on weight and forks can be a weak point. For ebikes with front motors steel has to be used, even aluminium alloy being too weak.
Plus, it might well be that cheaper heavier carbon frames are far safer than high end ones.
Ajax Bay
Guru
- Location
- East Devon
Why do you assess that it's "unlikely" that this fork breaking is a "freak occurrence"?
There are loads of components that "can be a weak point". Why single out forks? Clearly if a fork does fail catastrophically the result can be just that: catastrophic. And saving weight on a fork is small beer (carbon v carbon) in the weight weenie scheme of things. How many people consider the weight of the fork when purchasing a bike?
Cheaper (heavier but not really much init) carbon forks v 'high end' ones? Well I guess they "might" be "far safer" or they "might" not. It 'might' snow at Christmas.
albion
Guru
- Location
- South Tyneside
It is the forks where skimping on material is the most critical. More carbon layers reduces risk. In the aviation industry they scan the materials to spot defects between layers. I doubt anyone does that in the bike industry otherwise this catastrophe might have been avoided.
cougie uk
Guru
I don't think the Tempest is competing on weight. It's a pretty chunky bike for off-road. Plus I know of three of them with no issues at all. Tiny sample I know but I'm definitely leaning towards freak occurrence.
D
Deleted member 121159
Guest
I wonder if the headset and expander plug were set up correctly. The bike I got on a cycle to work scheme got delivered totally unfit to ride. Bolts were not tightened up to correct torques, indexing was nowhere near correct, and importantly the steerer tube was rattling due to the expander plug not being tightened at all. Lots of people who get bikes on a c2w scheme are beginner cyclists and won't know how to set it up correctly. Carbon fork rattling and hitting against the frame will eventually result in a failure. Please note I didn't get the bike from Planet X. It's just a speculation based on my experience with a different retailer.
