Sorry, but I have some sympathy for the judge's position. Being able to leave a bike around on the streets might be a nice thing to be able to do but I don't think anyone here would think it a practical thing to do these days. The police doing it will just tempt opportunists into taking it rather than what we are really after which is the people who will go after a locked bike. In this case they caught someone with an obvious record but that was more by luck than anything. Focus on trapping the people that go after our locked up bikes not just some opportunist who sees an opportunity in an unlocked bike.
Message to bike thieves - when you get caught, blame the police!
- Thread starter Sandra6
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ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
A friend of mine had his unlocked bike stolen from my parents' house. The 'opportunist thief' must have spotted it from the pavement, opened the garden gate, walked up the path, and crept on hands and knees in front of the bay window against which it was leaning in order to nick it without my parents spotting him/her. (They were watching a TV which was just inside the window.) Did my friend 'entrap' the thief?
I normally lock my back door but on one occasion (coming back from the pub!) I forgot to do it. I got up the next day and my wallet was gone from my kitchen. Does that mean I 'entrapped' the burglar?
An opportunist thief is still a thief, they just have less work to do to carry out the theft!
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
Most acquisitive crime is opportunuist. That open window, that moment when the girl on the till isn't looking, that unattended bike...
Thieves are often rather lazy, and given the choice would far sooner pinch an insecure bike than a heavily padlocked one.
Thieves are often rather lazy, and given the choice would far sooner pinch an insecure bike than a heavily padlocked one.
I don't think the instances that you describe would be 'entrapment' as neither you, nor your friend, set the goods out with the intention of trapping anyone
I believe that entrapment is widely used in the US, but as far as I know, and I am a bit out of touch with these matters, it has always been strongly resisted in Scotland, and it would appear, England as well.
jonny jeez
Legendary Member
- Location
- Chislehurst, Kent, UK
you may be onto something there.
Perhaps you should report the theft as Armed Robbery. Imagine the thief's look when a squad of officers corner him at gunpoint.
on that point I once watched a 15-18 yr old kid running around the back of the Whitgift shopping centre in Croydon...with a hand gun.
The sirens were all around, helicopter was in the air and as I circled the one way system the kid was on the floor with around 5
officers all stood over him.
I think it was a toy...but the old bill don't mess about when a gun is reported.
the kid was clearly a bit special
Davidc
Guru
- Location
- Somerset UK
Come back in 100 years time and it'll be back to the death penalty for stealing a loaf of bread.
It's judgements like this that will lead us to it.
It's judgements like this that will lead us to it.
An insecure bike? Is that one that wants everyone to like it but is filled with self-loathing?
An interesting article on entrapment in English Law
The critical point for this case would appear to be:
The critical point for this case would appear to be:
It is established case law that, while offering significant mitigation at sentence, there is no defence of entrapment in English law (R v Sang [1980] AC 402). However, it is also considered to be an abuse of court process for agents of the state to lure citizens into committing illegal acts and then seek to prosecute them for doing so. State-created entrapment of this sort will result in a stay of proceedings.
ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
Exactly - it's a bit different to offering to sell someone a kilo of crack cocaine ...2048670 said:
I would say that you'd be entrapping a bike thief by pretending to be someone who sells stolen bikes and offering them a large sum of money to steal bikes for you.
If the mere sight of unsecured property is enough to tempt them into crime, then they are criminals!
Especially if, as I presume, the bike was in a rack with other bikes.
I think the test seems to be was it done by "agents of the state" to which the answer is yes and was it something outside the norm. On the latter as I said before most people would expect to need to lock their bike and not be at all surprised at an unlocked bike being stolen. Therefore leaving an unlocked bike lying around would appear to be offering a temptation to commit a crime beyond what is normal. That would put it into entrapment which is what the Judge seems to have concluded also. Just the same as if the police put a £1 coin on the pavement and then arrested you for picking it up.
If you as not an agent of the state had done it it would just be classed as theft and you as foolish but the police are in a different category.
If you as not an agent of the state had done it it would just be classed as theft and you as foolish but the police are in a different category.
sidevalve
Über Member
If something isn't yours you don't just take it 'cos you like it. What next "oh I like the look of five pound notes so I just lifted his wallet " ? If you're unloading a van load of goods and someone runs up and grabs a boxfull of stuff and runs off I suppose it's ok because it's your fault because you "lured" him in ? No, theft is theft and the sooner we stop sucking up to low life criminal scum who feel they can "get away with it" the better.
I don't disagree with you but its different if its the police setting it up with the hope of enticing someone to commit theft so they can arrest them.
Hip Priest
Veteran
It may seem daft, but there's a reason why this sort if practice is frowned upon. Read up about Colin Stagg if you want to see what can happen when the police honeytrap someone.
ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
There is a world of difference between an undercover police officer offering to sleep with a bike thief if he nicks a bike for her, and just leaving a bike lying around unlocked!
How could the poor chap be expected not to take the bike when it wasn't even locked - *gasp*!
How could the poor chap be expected not to take the bike when it wasn't even locked - *gasp*!
