snakehips
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Twixt London and Leafy Surrey
Well we all have our opinions of him , mostly ill-informed , but I am going to ride around Richmond Park today wearing only one glove as my tribute.
Michael Jackson......
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Andy in Sig
Vice President in Exile
- Location
- Sigmaringen, Germany
Tim Bennet. said:
Perhaps. I dislike the straitjacket of so much conventional thought. It's important to avoid thinking like a Sun reader wherever possible.
Mr Pig
New Member
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- North Lanarkshire
That Daily Mash is funny :0)
When considering Cocker's actions, whether he was a brave protester or a Luddite, it helps to think of them in another context. If a painter produced work that was disliked by another painter, would the dissatisfied man have the right to go into the gallery and destroy the offending picture? That performance was Jackson's work, his art. You may not like what he said but he had the right to say it and when you start saying that he hasn't you're on shaky moral ground.
The repeated justification for Cocker's vandalism seems to be that Jackson was a pedophile, so deserved it. I don't know how many way there are to say this but it is of the utmost importance that Jackson was not found guilty. It is of no surprise to me that the man was almost destroyed by the accusations he faced, can you imagine what it must be like to face hatred and ridicule for a such a hideous crime if you are innocent of it?
And who are the ones so convinced of his guilt? What is noticeable is that anyone who knew Jackson well, those who knew how he thought and felt about life, how he lived, these people to a man are utterly convinced that he would never do such a thing. And Cocker, what makes him such an expert on Micheal Jackson? Probably what he read in the tabloid newspapers.
Find justification for Cocker's behavior if you like but don't think it puts you on the moral high ground. It puts you in an ignorant mob baying for blood, seeking the aperance of justice only but caring little for truth.
When considering Cocker's actions, whether he was a brave protester or a Luddite, it helps to think of them in another context. If a painter produced work that was disliked by another painter, would the dissatisfied man have the right to go into the gallery and destroy the offending picture? That performance was Jackson's work, his art. You may not like what he said but he had the right to say it and when you start saying that he hasn't you're on shaky moral ground.
The repeated justification for Cocker's vandalism seems to be that Jackson was a pedophile, so deserved it. I don't know how many way there are to say this but it is of the utmost importance that Jackson was not found guilty. It is of no surprise to me that the man was almost destroyed by the accusations he faced, can you imagine what it must be like to face hatred and ridicule for a such a hideous crime if you are innocent of it?
And who are the ones so convinced of his guilt? What is noticeable is that anyone who knew Jackson well, those who knew how he thought and felt about life, how he lived, these people to a man are utterly convinced that he would never do such a thing. And Cocker, what makes him such an expert on Micheal Jackson? Probably what he read in the tabloid newspapers.
Find justification for Cocker's behavior if you like but don't think it puts you on the moral high ground. It puts you in an ignorant mob baying for blood, seeking the aperance of justice only but caring little for truth.
Andy in Sig
Vice President in Exile
- Location
- Sigmaringen, Germany
I think you've got it there, Uncle Mort. Young Jarvis's action represented a very British take on cheesy Hollywood schmalzy glitz. His barb found its mark. In fact, it was one of those Emperor's New Clothes Moments.
Mr Pig said:
I don't think anyone's suggested Cocker's actions were to do with Jackson's prediliction for young boys. It was because he was behaving like a pompous prima-donna.
I've seen and heard enough to be convinced that Jackson was a paedophile. Your view that he must be innocent as a jury found him to be so, followed to its logical conclusion would also mean that OJ Simpson didn't murder his wife. Like Jackson, Simpson had lots of money.
I've posted this before but I suggest you read it and then tell me you are convinced Jackson was not a stoat the ball.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0625091jackson1.html
Rhythm Thief
Legendary Member
- Location
- Ross on Wye
Arch
Married to Night Train
- Location
- Salford, UK
snakehips said:Well we all have our opinions of him , mostly ill-informed , but I am going to ride around Richmond Park today wearing only one glove as my tribute.
Excellent. Can you imagine, stopping to talk to some hardcore roadie, who asks why you're only wearing one glove, and then them backing away when you tell them it's your tribute to Micheal Jackson, and you're his number one fan...
Mr Pig
New Member
- Location
- North Lanarkshire
PaulB said:
Stoat the ball? Never heard that used in this context before ;0)
Have you looked into the background and previous actions of some of the people who accused Jackson? I suggest you do. Did you know that the boy had previously accused 'both' of his parents of abusing him? The mother also accused a security guard who apprehended her for shoplifting of sexually abusing her and gained an out of court settlement from the store.
Social workers who attended the family home during the parent's divorce interview the children. All children said that the father sometimes shouted at them, but not often, and never hit them. When the mother found out that the children had said this she was furious and accompanied them to later interviews where the children changed their stories to say that the father beat them every day, broke their bones, threatened to kill them and held the mother's head under water.
The mother also, months later, accused the father of sexually abusing the daughter. The prosecution in the Jackson case for some strange reason did not want these things brought up in court, can't think why!
And do you remember that the boy was destitute and dying of cancer? Turned out he was neither! And the boy's mother said in court that the only reason she'd recorded a video extolling Jackson as a wonderful person was that his aides had held her family and threatened to kill them all if she didn't! You believe these people? You just take them at their word?
I'm not saying that Jackson was innocent. I'm saying that he might be and I would ask you to consider the results of persecuting an innocent man before being so keen to participate in the witch hunt.
Yes he was. Doesn't he have the right to? Can we beat up camp homosexuals? Can we destroy books we don't like?
Arch
Married to Night Train
- Location
- Salford, UK
montage said:
HINT: Listen to Radio 4. They're still majoring on the story, but not playing the music!
Mr Pig said:
And if that was an isolated incident, I might be persuaded but he'd previously paid another kid $20,000,000 for accusations of a stoat nature to go away. Are these the actions of an innocent man? And I never once said anything at all about Jackson's paedophilia while he was alive so now he's dead, I can't be accused of a witch hunt.
Crankarm
Guru
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
PaulB said:
Well I wouldn't have to if "guff" wasn't first posted by you
.What ever you think of Jackson his music is his legacy. It is plain to see that so many other musicians have been influenced by it. How much was down to Jackson himself or Quincy Jones we'll never know but you would have to be a complete musical philistine not to recognise his contribution to shaping modern music and dance. Notwithstanding that during the 70s and 80s and early 90s and even recently before his death his music was still being played despite the allegations against him which were dismissed by a court.
I'm not particularly an MJ fan. I woud never have gone and seen him however I used to listen to his earlier stuff which he did when he was about 17 which was great Off the Wall. I can still remember what I was doing when I first heard some of his songs. Thriller will be his enduring masterpiece. His beat and rhythm in his songs were perfection. Ok he is not the only great musician to have lived but he was one of if not the best. No doubt his fans and owners of the recording rights will guarantee his immortality.
Sittingduck
Legendary Member
- Location
- Somewhere flat
snakehips said:Well we all have our opinions of him , mostly ill-informed , but I am going to ride around Richmond Park today wearing only one glove as my tribute.
Just got back from a 53 miler that included some Richmond Park madness ch'mown. I didn't see anyone wearing a sparkly glove! Although at one point, I thought I saw one of the smaller male deer trying to Moonwalk... probably just showing off in front of his mates though.
Sittingduck
Legendary Member
- Location
- Somewhere flat
Uncle Mort said:I trust you observed the park speed limit
On the UP hills - yeah... infact I stayed well under the 20mph as a mark of respect
From TMZ:
Emergency Workers Felt Jackson Dead at Scene
Posted Jun 26th 2009 12:45PM by TMZ Staff
When EMTs arrived at Michael Jackson's home yesterday, the medics wanted to pronounce him dead on the scene -- but Michael's personal doctor refused to let them "call it" -- this according to sources close to the situation.
When EMTs arrived there was evidence someone had been performing CPR on Michael for "quite some time." There was evidence of Lidocaine -- an old-school drug that can be used to treat disturbances in the heart's rhythm. Medics took over performing CPR but determined Jackson was lifeless -- and wanted to call the coroner to pick up the body.
We're told Jackson was flat-lined when EMTs arrived.
But our sources say M.J.'s doc demanded EMTs continue performing CPR anyway, and demanded that they take Michael to the hospital.
Once they arrived at UCLA, we're told Jackson's doc continued to personally administer CPR -- even though it was clear Jackson was already gone.
---------------
Seems to me that the Dr had a hand in this ALLEGEDLY
Emergency Workers Felt Jackson Dead at Scene
Posted Jun 26th 2009 12:45PM by TMZ Staff
When EMTs arrived at Michael Jackson's home yesterday, the medics wanted to pronounce him dead on the scene -- but Michael's personal doctor refused to let them "call it" -- this according to sources close to the situation.
When EMTs arrived there was evidence someone had been performing CPR on Michael for "quite some time." There was evidence of Lidocaine -- an old-school drug that can be used to treat disturbances in the heart's rhythm. Medics took over performing CPR but determined Jackson was lifeless -- and wanted to call the coroner to pick up the body.
We're told Jackson was flat-lined when EMTs arrived.
But our sources say M.J.'s doc demanded EMTs continue performing CPR anyway, and demanded that they take Michael to the hospital.
Once they arrived at UCLA, we're told Jackson's doc continued to personally administer CPR -- even though it was clear Jackson was already gone.
---------------
Seems to me that the Dr had a hand in this ALLEGEDLY
