Mickle Method with Dry Lube?

[palinurus]

Basil infused extra virgin is also oil but has limited use as a chain lube..

Quite right, volatiles in the basil reduce the viscosity of the oil. I use an unadulterated single-estate Tuscan oil on my Colnago.

 

[Panter]

In my humble opinion, you're over-thinking it.
Wipe chain with rag, slap some lube on, wipe again with rag, enjoy bike!

 

[Pale Rider]

@EasyPeez

You like a clean, shiny chain, and are prepared to spend some time and a little money to achieve this.

So use nothing other than GT85 and a rag after every ride.

I don't claim this will make the chain last the longest time, but that's not what you are after.

It will give you a shiny chain that runs smoothly and silently.

At worst, the chain may wear out slightly faster than using other methods.

But I have no evidence of that, my chains last OK and in any case they are a consumable item and not expensive.

I also wash the cassette with wash'n'wax car wash solution, so that's nice and shiny as well.

 

[Cuchilo]

I just run the chain through a baby wipe , add dry lube and then run through a baby wipe again . If the chain is really dirty I use more baby wipes and do it a few times .

 

[EasyPeez]

Well, if I was confused before I asked the questions....!
I guess from the diverse responses this is one where there is no definitive solution, but where different cyclists have different opinions/systems/preferences.

In my humble opinion, you're over-thinking it

I'm coming to that conclusion myself now! And after all, the chain is a cheap and relatively short-lived component anyway so it's not worth worrying about much in itself. But I guess I'm just keen to preserve my cassette and more especially chainrings as long as poss, and for the whole drivechain to look, feel, and sound spot on when zipping along.

So use nothing other than GT85 and a rag after every ride

That's all you use?! No wet or dry lube at all? It sounds beautifully simple, but I'm surprised it offers enough lubrication for a decent day's ride. Have you had no probs with cassette/chainring wear?

2) No, not unless you're switching between completely incompatible lubes (usually wax and anything else)

I think the factory lube and the ceramic Muc Off lube I have prob are incompatible? So I prob should degrease first.

3) Yes, apply lube to the inside of the bottom run and let it rinse through

Why didn't I think of that?! Thanks

When i was commuting, i was fortunate enough to store my bike in my workshop. This left various bits of the day to keep the bike clean etc ect. on a weekly basis, sometimes more often I used to remove chain, wipe clean, lay on a bench and blast all the dirt out of the chain with a HP airline, you'd be amazed how much comes out, and keeps coming out. Once clean, i'd lay it in an oil bath for half an hour, then hang on a nail to drip excess off, then wipe wipe wipe and fit back to the bike.
Sounds like a faff and it would be at home, but i was at work and each operation only takes a few minutes so no loss to me.
I had a lovely clean, well oiled chain.....did it last any longer than just oiling and wiping...no, it didnt make a jot of real difference (i'm a bit sad like that, i used to record whaich make chain (tried em all), and what mileage i got out of it. No difference whatsoever in my experience

That sounds like a fantastic routine for someone of my OCD tendencies - i'd love to be able to do that! It's been suggested by some of our staff that we should have a shower room on site so I might push for the boss to get an airline and oil bath installed too
Interesting (and I guess reassuring) to hear that none of this improved your chain life though. Maybe we're all getting too hung up about these differences in regimes.

 

[EasyPeez]

I use a properly "dry" lube on the summer bike (Muc Off C3 Ceramic) as I find it works well (with caveats - see below) and keeps the chain/cassette sparkling clean.
It's not oil... It's a liquid solvent carrier with a ceramic "wax". the solvent penetrates the rollers then evaporates and leaves behind the waxy coating.

I've found that it works best if the chain is cleaned and de-greased before initial application. I generally spray the chain with brake/clutch cleaner before use and allow it to dry out. Then apply several coats of C3, allowing each one to dry out for a few hours (or overnight).

Once lubed the chain feels slippy, but has no oily residue. It runs completely cleanly and doesn't pick up the black gunk/grinding paste an oil based lube generates. The chain, cassette and jockey wheels stay new looking and shiny and chain wear rates are no worse than using oil. Then all that's needed is a quick re-lube every week or so, as a bonus, as there's no gunk the weekly cleaning is a simple wipe with a dry cloth and re-apply.

However (there's always a however), it only works when it's not raining..... rain washes out the lube very quickly and leaves the chain with little protection.
Oh and the stuff is stupidly expensive.... although a small bottle does last for ages as you need very little.

That's the same lube I've bought, @Kestevan and your application and maintenance regime is exactly what I was hoping to follow myself. Sounds like it's working for you, and as I won't be riding this bike in the wet the 'however' poses no worries for me. I am sorely tempted to follow your lead. And surely these products must have been developed through lots of research and testing, so should work well if used as directed?

 

[EasyPeez]

Oil flows back between pressure "incidents". We know this because it carries with it black steel residue and the fact that the oil turns black tells us that it is being recycled and pumped throughout the chain's tension and slack runs. Wax for instance doesn't turn black because the steel particles remain a the surface where they come from and never disperses into the rest of the lubricant.

However, I cannot ignore the term "dry" because it is so prevalent in bicycle lore. I prefer the term solid lubricant. This could also include the solvent-based waxes described by you that are technically liquid when applied but solid once the carrier has evaporated. All these suffer from longevity, as I described. Obviously this is not a problem if your re-lube intervals are short. How short? It depends on how solid the lubricant is. Wax allows metal to slide on metal within 10 kilometers or so. This is easy to observe since the chain makes a different sound as soon as the wax is displaced from the pressure faces inside the chain. A trained ear can quickly pick up that point.

But then this seems to make a lot of sense. I'd never thought that oil turns black because of the residues that it moves out of the chain rather than just because of the gunk it collects from the road.
@Yellow Saddle - the claims in the description here seem at odds with your assessment of dry/solid lubes - https://muc-off.com/lube/179-c3-dry-ceramic-lube.html

I'm not even sure if this C3 Ceramic stuff counts as a wax or not. I don't mind frequent re-lubes but 10km is just stupid, as you imply yourself. I can't find a full list of constituent ingredients anywhere but it mentions Flouro polymers and Boron Nitride. Looking that that would you say the claims of "reducing metal to metal contact to a groundbreaking low level" is just advertising bunkem? Or could this ceramic stuff be a better bet than wax and serve as well as oil but without the mess?

 

[Pale Rider]

That's all you use?! No wet or dry lube at all? It sounds beautifully simple, but I'm surprised it offers enough lubrication for a decent day's ride. Have you had no probs with cassette/chainring wear?

Yes, GT85 and a rag after every ride, although I sometimes dispense with the GT85 if I'm feeling mean.

The drivetrain runs smoothly and quietly, although it will sometimes become noisier towards the end of a longer ride.

No particular problems with chain or cassette wear.

I don't clam to do millions of miles, and those miles are split over three bikes.

Neither do I claim my method will eke out the last kilometre from a chain.

It's not designed to, it's designed to do a reasonable lube job while leaving the chain appearing clean and shiny - which is what you asked for.

I did run my lube method past my mate Chris the bike mechanic.

"Good as any," was his slightly world weary response to such a fresh and interesting question.

I think he liked the little and often approach as much as the method itself.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

But then this seems to make a lot of sense. I'd never thought that oil turns black because of the residues that it moves out of the chain rather than just because of the gunk it collects from the road.
@Yellow Saddle - the claims in the description here seem at odds with your assessment of dry/solid lubes - https://muc-off.com/lube/179-c3-dry-ceramic-lube.html

I'm not even sure if this C3 Ceramic stuff counts as a wax or not. I don't mind frequent re-lubes but 10km is just stupid, as you imply yourself. I can't find a full list of constituent ingredients anywhere but it mentions Flouro polymers and Boron Nitride. Looking that that would you say the claims of "reducing metal to metal contact to a groundbreaking low level" is just advertising bunkem? Or could this ceramic stuff be a better bet than wax and serve as well as oil but without the mess?

It seems to me from reading the description, that the ceramic in this product (boron nitride) is used as an additive inside an oil base. It can of course be added to a solid, like was as well. Boron Nitride is a solid and it is used in powder form when used as a lubricant. LIke graphite, it has weak links between its crystalline planes which readily shear and shift over each other. On its own on a chain, it will quickly fall off and float away, hence the trick of trapping it in oil.

Will it improve the chain's performance? Yes, but only if it is used on a chain that can be kept perfectly clean, like in a crank case with filtered oil. On a bicycle the lowest common denominator is road grit and attempting to improve lubricity in such a miniscule way whilst you have relatively large and hard bits of silica (sand) floating around in the oil is useless.

Just like graphite and diamond which both have exactly the same components - carbon, boron nitrate also comes in two forms, cubic and hexagonal. The former is a hard abrasive substance, the latter used as a lubricant just like graphite. It is used instead of graphite where colour is important (it is white) and where electrical conductivity is undesirable. Graphite is conductive. It has its place in industry and it is cheap and therefore a great product to add to oil and boast about its space age properties and the fact that it is used in space and inside high temperature machines. However, that does not mean its application is valid on bicycle chains. Bicycle chains are low-tech devices which work equally well with just about any lubricant (including water and wax) but benefits from something that has longevity and can be cleaned out quite easily. The biggest benefit is cleanliness, not marginally improved lubricity.

This is all very anal and I don't blame people who just don't care. But I would argue that there is benefit in for them if only in saving money by not falling for the claims of expensive dedicated products.

 

[gbb]

Yes, GT85 and a rag after every ride, although I sometimes dispense with the GT85 if I'm feeling mean.

The drivetrain runs smoothly and quietly, although it will sometimes become noisier towards the end of a longer ride.

No particular problems with chain or cassette wear.

I don't clam to do millions of miles, and those miles are split over three bikes.

Neither do I claim my method will eke out the last kilometre from a chain.

It's not designed to, it's designed to do a reasonable lube job while leaving the chain appearing clean and shiny - which is what you asked for.

I did run my lube method past my mate Chris the bike mechanic.

"Good as any," was his slightly world weary response to such a fresh and interesting question.

I think he liked the little and often approach as much as the method itself.

Assuming you can compare GT85 with WD40, they're much the same in use, but in actual properties...i don't know, but..
Having read the lengthy arguements re this and that, i prefer to make my own way and come to my own conclusions..So, some years ago i sprayed my chain almost daily with WD40, i had the most gloriously clean chain...which did circa 700 miles before it was cream crackered, instead of the 1200-1500 miles i normally get.

Like PaleRider, there is another member (apologies i can't remember who) who swears by WD40 and he avidly believes it works well. I'm not going to poo poo it...to do so is effectively calling that person a liar, just my experience (with logged chains and mileage achieved) is completely the opposite.

TBF, chain life isnt THAT important to me personally. 700 miles...i shrugged my shoulders and fitted a new chain. I consider them a consumable (which of course they are)...and would rather fit one too soon and protect more expensive components like the cassette etc. It was a worthwhile experiment (WD40)...i tried, but even the fact you're spraying the stuff daily isnt ideal from just an environmental perspective. Back to oil then for me at that time..

 

[LouiseSJPP]

What on earth is the Mickle method??

I've always been very unsure about how to clean and lube chains, and I'm an engineer! Having spent many years running an MTB every day over sandy moors and through a ford, which combination had the brake pads wear straight through the wheel rims, I settled on a quick and easy method, on the basis that quick and easy would get done. Use old cardboard behind chain wheels and chain, and underneath, spray copiously with good ol' WD40, spinning the pedals around, then apply a light oil on top. My hopes were, and still are, that the light WD40 will wash at least some crap away while not doing that nasty degreasing thing, and the light oil will then make it's way where it should. A light wipe with a cloth afterwards, bad in that it will force any surface grit back into the joints, but good because you need to not have excess oil on the chain for more crud to stick to.

This seemed to work in that the chain and cassette lasted as well as I would have expected. I mention the cassette, @gbb because a worn chain takes the sprockets with it as the link length effectively increases. With an over-long link length, the chain's load all falls on the last sprocket tooth as it drags off it instead of being distributed over several and letting go gently.

 

[Pale Rider]

Assuming you can compare GT85 with WD40,..

I believe there are relevant differences in their properties.

GT85 leaves some lubrication behind after it has evaporated - spray and wipe the frame with it and water 'beads' afterwards.

WD40 does not do that and, to me, feels almost sticky which is the last think you want on a chain.

Using only GT85 I an certainly doing a lot better than 700 miles from a chain.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

This seemed to work in that the chain and cassette lasted as well as I would have expected. I mention the cassette, @gbb because a worn chain takes the sprockets with it as the link length effectively increases. With an over-long link length, the chain's load all falls on the last sprocket tooth as it drags off it instead of being distributed over several and letting go gently.

"As well as I would have expected" is subjective and tells you absolutely nothing about your drivetrain's life. Also, an elongated (worn) chain will not even mesh with a good sprocket on a bicycle because it enters under slack rides on top (skates) rather than engage. Therefore, it does not have an effect on sprocket wear as you describe. It is different for a chainring though since the chain enters that in tension. (I use the term sprocket for the rear and chainring for the front to distinguish between the two).

 

[gbb]

What on earth is the Mickle method??

I've always been very unsure about how to clean and lube chains, and I'm an engineer! Having spent many years running an MTB every day over sandy moors and through a ford, which combination had the brake pads wear straight through the wheel rims, I settled on a quick and easy method, on the basis that quick and easy would get done. Use old cardboard behind chain wheels and chain, and underneath, spray copiously with good ol' WD40, spinning the pedals around, then apply a light oil on top. My hopes were, and still are, that the light WD40 will wash at least some crap away while not doing that nasty degreasing thing, and the light oil will then make it's way where it should. A light wipe with a cloth afterwards, bad in that it will force any surface grit back into the joints, but good because you need to not have excess oil on the chain for more crud to stick to.

This seemed to work in that the chain and cassette lasted as well as I would have expected. I mention the cassette, @gbb because a worn chain takes the sprockets with it as the link length effectively increases. With an over-long link length, the chain's load all falls on the last sprocket tooth as it drags off it instead of being distributed over several and letting go gently.

As an engineer myself, the truth is a chain is a consumable. Generally speaking, you can slightly shorten or lengthen the life of one, but would be hard pushed to make any discernable difference without some serious input from a maintenance point of view.
This is a general observation Erreca (hope the shortening is ok) , not aimed at you...a chain costs what, £10, £15, maybe £20. How much effort do you have to put in to extend its life, it is to me a disposable item, something that benefits from being changed more often than perhaps we'd like. Thats why i said i'd rather change a chain too early, to protect the cassette etc, you're right on that Erreca.

WD to clean it ?...well...you can but as its a solvent, it is very good at breaking down dirt and oil, BUT, that solvent is going to get into the roller pins (the MOST important part of a chain...and you don't even see them) and break down the oil you put on shortly after thus undoing your good work.

If your system works to your satisfaction....its working. Nothing can change that. Someone will have a different opinion or method...very few are outright wrong, just different. It MAY be shortening the chain life a bit...so what i'd think.
Oil it, wipe it, do it regularly. I'm happy to replace a chain twice a year if i'm doing the mileage, once if i'm not. If only i was doing the mileage right now...if only

 

[Pale Rider]

Seems to me bike type also has an impact.

The chain on my Alfine 11 hub gear bike looks like it's going to last forever - no detectable wear on the bike shop's gauge after a couple of thousand miles.

Much as I would like to claim this as a vindication of my maintenance regime, I don't think it is.

The higher chain line on a bike without a derailleur keeps the chain out of the worst of the road dirt, the chain always runs in a perfect line chain ring to sprocket, and the wear caused by dragging the chain across a rear cassette is absent.