Moaning about cycling two abreast

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BEHMOTH66

Active Member
I understand why cyclists ride 2 abreast. But I have experienced them on my local country roads where they refuse to even move in to passing places to let vehicles pass. Unfortunately, some are inconsiderate to other road users.

If cyclists wont share the road, why should they expect motorists to do the same?

I agree with you that there are a lot of inconsiderate road users, but maybe the cyclist view is if cars and vans won't share the road with us why should we with them after all a cyclist gets a lot more stick from vehicle owners than the other way round, and the problem with this is it just is an ever perpetuating circle
 

nickyboy

Norven Mankey
CWB_JUdW4AAt85H.jpg


I found that on Twitter. People are playing with their phones in the car to take photos of riders making it easier for you at a spot where no sane driver would attempt an overtake in the first place. Holy Jumping Jehosephat, the entitlement is strong with this one.


I think the fundamental issue is the difference of opinion as regards what constitutes a "safe pass". Taking the example above, as a car driver if they were singled out I would have no real problem with overtaking (but not on the bend). There are only 4 cyclists so I'd be past them quickly. In any case a vehicle coming the other way would se e me straddling the white line (and it would only be a straddle) and move over a bit so we could both safely continue

I appreciate that, even singled out, cyclists want car drivers to overtake by going right over to the oncoming side of the road. But it doesn't happen. It's never happened and it almost certainly never will happen. I personally have no problem with car drivers overtaking with a white line straddle. Gives plenty of room and on a decent road there's room for me, the overtaker and a car coming the other way
 

CUBE CRD

Well-Known Member
Agree, there are circumstances such as you describe. Just as there are circumstances where singling out is the right thing to do if there's just two riders. It's all about circumstances, there are no hard and fasts. Never always right to ride two abreast, just as its never always wrong

Completely agree - well said.
 

glasgowcyclist

Charming but somewhat feckless
Location
Scotland
In any case a vehicle coming the other way would se e me straddling the white line (and it would only be a straddle) and move over a bit so we could both safely continue


That puts you in a situation where you are passing the cyclists while you and the opposing car negotiate the remaining space, effectively you being the meat in a sandwich.
That is very unwise driving.

GC
 

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
I appreciate that, even singled out, cyclists want car drivers to overtake by going right over to the oncoming side of the road.

Why?

In Europe there are minimum passing distances set in a number of countries, in France the rule is that motorists need to give cyclists a minimum of 1m in towns (just over 3ft) and 1.5m (just under 5ft) on other roads, Germany and Spain go for 1.5m.

...

http://www.safecyclingiom.com/minimum-overtake-distance/4588861521
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Why?

In Europe there are minimum passing distances set in a number of countries, in France the rule is that motorists need to give cyclists a minimum of 1m in towns (just over 3ft) and 1.5m (just under 5ft) on other roads, Germany and Spain go for 1.5m.
Because the road space is there and if there's not enough left for oncoming motorists to get through, why not use all of the width? It's also easier to judge the space remaining on the driver's side than on the far side.

UK guidance suggests you should allow at least 1.0m gap when passing at 20mph and 1.5m at 30mph, which combines with the normal cyclist's 1.2m dynamic envelope and 0.5m envelope-kerb clearance (all from LTN 2/08 - sadly these expectations aren't in the Highway Code or law yet) to mean your left edge should be at least 3.2m from the left kerb - which in a car of typically 1.9m width (published spec of Ford Mondeo) means your right edge should be at least 5.1m from the left kerb.

The widest standard lanes in the Design Manual for Roads and Bridges are 5m (an S2W lane, typically a rural single-carriageway A road) and you need to be 5.1m out, so even then you require the next lane right to be clear and you may as well change lane to pass a cyclist in secondary position at 30mph or more. A standard traffic lane is 3.65m wide - so if more than your left wheels are in the lane or if the cyclist is not in secondary position, you'd always be passing too close, so please don't take chances with cyclist lives and change lane fully to pass.

If there's two abreast, add another 1.2m to the widths, which means you're still in the next lane right and not beyond. In other words, whether a group cycling is singled or not is usually irrelevant because we should use the other lane to overtake when in a motor vehicle. If anything, two-abreast means shorter means quicker to pass.
 
I think the fundamental issue is the difference of opinion as regards what constitutes a "safe pass". Taking the example above, as a car driver if they were singled out I would have no real problem with overtaking (but not on the bend). There are only 4 cyclists so I'd be past them quickly. In any case a vehicle coming the other way would se e me straddling the white line (and it would only be a straddle) and move over a bit so we could both safely continue

I appreciate that, even singled out, cyclists want car drivers to overtake by going right over to the oncoming side of the road. But it doesn't happen. It's never happened and it almost certainly never will happen. I personally have no problem with car drivers overtaking with a white line straddle. Gives plenty of room and on a decent road there's room for me, the overtaker and a car coming the other way

And if the driver of the vehicle coming the other way thinks "fark you!" or is too busy on the mobile, everyone gets a chance to die :blink:
 

snorri

Legendary Member
I appreciate that, even singled out, cyclists want car drivers to overtake by going right over to the oncoming side of the road. But it doesn't happen. It's never happened and it almost certainly never will happen. I personally have no problem with car drivers overtaking with a white line straddle. Gives plenty of room and on a decent road there's room for me, the overtaker and a car coming the other way
IME it does happen, it has happened in the past and there is no reason why it should not continue to happen.
It doesn't happen when the driver is impatient and inconsiderate, and wants to overtake before a corner or oncoming vehicle. There are no roads in my locality where I want to be three abreast with an overtaking car and an approaching car.
 

nickyboy

Norven Mankey
Not even when you are the one driving?

Actually no. I'm quite happy to overtake by straddling the white line when passing a lone cyclist or a singled out line. I'm talking about roads that, in my opinion, are wide enough to accommodate the cyclist, me overtaking and a vehicle coming the other way. I get overtaken like this all the time and I never regard it as an issue
 

nickyboy

Norven Mankey
Why?

In Europe there are minimum passing distances set in a number of countries, in France the rule is that motorists need to give cyclists a minimum of 1m in towns (just over 3ft) and 1.5m (just under 5ft) on other roads, Germany and Spain go for 1.5m.

...

http://www.safecyclingiom.com/minimum-overtake-distance/4588861521

I was merely presenting the argument seen here from a lot of cyclists that the only safe overtake is one where the car goes all the way onto the other side of the road (and as such has to make sure that there are no vehicles coming the other way at all.

Depending on the nature of the road I don't believe that to be necessary. I also think that this is fundamentally where the conflict between two-abreast riders and car drivers comes from. Cyclists think that the car driver should overtake fully on the far side, even when riding single file. Car drivers do not
 

Brian Stacks

Active Member
Location
Chelmsford
What about the times when the car has just passed us cyclist only to stop right in front of us. This will either make us stop suddenly, crash into the back of them or swerve onto the on coming traffic. Why can't cars become smaller on case we need to pass them!!!
 

oldstrath

Über Member
Location
Strathspey
I was merely presenting the argument seen here from a lot of cyclists that the only safe overtake is one where the car goes all the way onto the other side of the road (and as such has to make sure that there are no vehicles coming the other way at all.

Depending on the nature of the road I don't believe that to be necessary. I also think that this is fundamentally where the conflict between two-abreast riders and car drivers comes from. Cyclists think that the car driver should overtake fully on the far side, even when riding single file. Car drivers do not
Then car drivers are wrong.
 

nickyboy

Norven Mankey
Then car drivers are wrong.

Unfortunately car drivers will say you are wrong. So the debate goes no further. Car drivers will keep doing straddle overtakes. If it really is the case that straddle overtaking is wrong (and I don't believe it is wrong) then it's incumbent on the cyclist representative bodies to get the education out there. They have been totally unsuccessful in this regard
 

oldstrath

Über Member
Location
Strathspey
Unfortunately car drivers will say you are wrong. So the debate goes no further. Car drivers will keep doing straddle overtakes. If it really is the case that straddle overtaking is wrong (and I don't believe it is wrong) then it's incumbent on the cyclist representative bodies to get the education out there. They have been totally unsuccessful in this regard
If there's no other traffic and a clear view ahead it's unnecessary. If there other traffic it almost always leads to, at best, a pass that is too close. If there's a restricted view it is dangerous because the driver will be more concerned to avoid the danger to themselves than the danger to the cyclist.

Of course education ought to work. It won't, because a non-trivial proportion of otherwise normal people turn into impatient selfish farkwits as soon as they sit behind a steering wheel.

By the way, I was one of them. That's one reason I stopped driving.
 
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