Moaning about cycling two abreast

[mjr]

If it really is the case that straddle overtaking is wrong (and I don't believe it is wrong) then it's incumbent on the cyclist representative bodies to get the education out there.

Why don't you believe it's wrong? How can you justify it? Isn't the maths in post #69 convincing? If so, I can redo it with pictures to make the point clearer and send it up to the various national bodies.

 

[StuartG]

I bet if you asked the average driver they would say these cyclists are riding four abreast. Whereas if you look closely its probably two pairs with no overlap. But the apparent sin, (and I don't agree there is a sin) is doubled.

They look as though they are working hard and probably doing 20+ mph. You can't overtake until well into that left hanger in difficult conditions and the SatNav shows its going to be easier after the bend so - a cyclist driving would probably complement the back 'guard' rider for being well positioned (and illuminated). The non-cycling driver would probably not understand and fume.

There is no real solution without:

a) Draconian enforcement of a presently non-existent law (never going to happen)
b) Mandate passing a cycle proficiency test before being given a provisional licence (not going to happen in my lifetime either)

Which means when riding with a group we just have to accept the moans, hold our ground and not allow it to ruin our day. Just returning a smile through clenched teeth.

 

[glenn forger]

The non-cycling driver would probably not understand and fume.

Non-thinking would be better. Anyone who looks at that photo and reckons the riders are doing anything wrong is too thick to drive. That's an acquired prejudice, nobody explicitly taught them that the riding is incorrect but their privilege is so rampantly unchecked that they are DESPERATE to fanny about with their phone to take a photo while driving of cyclists doing nothing wrong. If it wasn't this it would be something else. I swear to God sooner or later some perishing chuffer's going to upload a photo of a cyclist munching a sandwich with the caption "This is what makes people hate cyclists!" A cyclist sitting on a bench reading a map "LOOK AT THIS IDIOT!"

 

[snorri]

Unfortunately car drivers will say you are wrong. So the debate goes no further. Car drivers will keep doing straddle overtakes. If it really is the case that straddle overtaking is wrong (and I don't believe it is wrong) then it's incumbent on the cyclist representative bodies to get the education out there. They have been totally unsuccessful in this regard

The Highway Code says you should leave a cyclist as much room as you would a car. My interpretation of that would be you should leave the width of the lane for the cyclist, as you would a car, when overtaking and that straddle overtaking is wrong.

 

[growingvegetables]

.... then it's incumbent on the cyclist representative bodies to get the education out there.

Sorry - but rubbish!

Legislate for minimum passing distance, update the HC accordingly, and police the transgressors.

Education plays a part - fine. But only if the law, policing, and penalties are in place ... like with drink-driving.

 

[moo]

Double white lines - I take aggressive primary position which is akin to two abreast. Despite doing 25-35mph on a nice 2 mile stretch of twisty road I've yet to see a vehicle hold back. I almost witnessed a HGV vs HGV incident a few weeks ago. If a line of cyclists were to ride single file they would be under that HGV as it swerved back in.

 

[glenn forger]

Plain clothes coppers on bikes, get a few hundred thousand fines for close passes handed out and I reckon drivers would suddenly become more receptive to the concept of sharing the road.

 

[StuartG]

Non-thinking would be better. Anyone who looks at that photo and reckons the riders are doing anything wrong is too thick to drive. That's an acquired prejudice, nobody explicitly taught them that the riding is incorrect but their privilege is so rampantly unchecked that they are DESPERATE to fanny about with their phone to take a photo while driving of cyclists doing nothing wrong. If it wasn't this it would be something else. I swear to God sooner or later some perishing chuffer's going to upload a photo of a cyclist munching a sandwich with the caption "This is what makes people hate cyclists!" A cyclist sitting on a bench reading a map "LOOK AT THIS IDIOT!"

Oh dear. Time to check your blood pressure. That's more likely to kill you than this driver.

I guess in my more extreme moments I've thought that most people are too thick to be on this planet. Look again at the picture through they eyes of someone who hasn't ridden, yet alone group ridden. Without understanding I maintain that most motorists would think they are riding four abreast. Its an optical illusion easily done.

The real error, if it was so, that they distracted themselves from the prime task of driving to take this picture. Is this because they are stupid or just have a short fuse? And I've seen as many short fuses on two wheels as four. Doesn't excuse it but that is a human trait our culture rather feeds.

Airline pilots probably drive as badly as most drivers. But when they get into the cockpit things change. They obey speed limits precisely. They go through checklists meticulously, they don't try a risky overtake to get to the runway first. And if they do they get fired and lose their licence permanently. Which is one reason they don't misbehave. But its also an expectation from everybody the other side of the cockpit door. From people who drove too fast to the airport and thought the parking restrictions were for other people.

Until we can somehow shift our culture to expect car drivers to behave professionally like pilots (who kill rather less people) - they won't. Culture change is very difficult but not impossible. Thinking of ways of achieving it rather than having a rant may be more productive and make you a nicer person to share this planet or even a Surrey lane with.

 

[glenn forger]

Without understanding I maintain that most motorists would think they are riding four abreast. Its an optical illusion easily done.

.

They didn't. The person who posted the photo got laughed at and ridiculed. Everyone who isn't a whackjob can see the riders are blameless. That's kind of the point, that such an innocuous road position could be so misunderstood by someone playing with their phone.

 

[glenn forger]

Case in point:

Tomas Hartvig ‏@tomashartvig Dec 19
If you wanna kill yourself, this is a good way. Fxxxxxg idiot cyclists.

 

[andyfraser]

Plain clothes coppers on bikes, get a few hundred thousand fines for close passes handed out and I reckon drivers would suddenly become more receptive to the concept of sharing the road.

I suggested that to an officer once. I wasn't being entirely serious but I could tell he didn't like that sound of it. He's the one who said he wouldn't cycle on the roads in Wiltshire.

 

[glenn forger]

When coppers come out with "I wouldn't cycle these days, too dangerous" I want to shake them violently.

 

[jonny jeez]

If they gave it a moment's thought they'd realise that in group situations, it's often easier to overtake cyclists 2 or more abreast, as there's less linear room to navigate.

To be honest, that diagrams fails for me.. even as a cyclist.

How often do drivers really come across a group of nine riders and if they did then any fool amongst them would appreciate the group bunching up.

I think 2 or 4 riders are the "groups" that cause frustration. In this situation I struggle to paint a picture (like the above) that can show a benefit to a driver and i think it better to just share the road and single out when a car is around to save holding up traffic, even if that means slowing and moving over too, why not...it'll hold me up a lot less than I could hold them up by being obstinate and riding by the law, if not by common courtesy.

I think the problem is one of sharing...introduce one stubborn rider to one stubborn driver and pretty soon you have yourself a radio phone in, followed by a reciprical internet chat that attracts all manner of ignorance and conflict...where there needn't be any.

so, to me the joy of riding two a breast should be treated as a privilege...unless of course I am riding in a peloton of 9 riders.

In busy towns I find it possible to ride two abreast in some instances but these are mostly limited to bus lanes and CS paths.

I shall duck for cover now.

 

[growingvegetables]

... so, to me the joy of riding two a breast should be treated as a privilege...

Riding two abreast could be LOTS of things ... but NEVER that. EVER!

 

[StuartG]

Case in point:

This was very unlikely to have been taken by the driver, check the licence, the windscreen wipers, the country. Why can't a non-driver misunderstand situations, play with their camera and be a bit of twit on Twitter? Or did you misread this situation?