Mobile phones

[Boris Bajic]

I find your inhumane indifference to anyone outside your immediate family not only offensive but deeply inhumane. Why do you think your daughter deserves the protection you would deny to anyone else? Why do you insist only your children are important and anyone else can go hang? The victims of the distracted drivers you defend have parents too, what makes you so important that you deserve the respect you deny others? Your special pleading is self-centered and incredibly selfish, you think anyone outside your immediate circle does not deserve the dignity you insist upon for your own clan. The fact you seek refuge in offence speaks volumes. You are a moral coward.

Ummm.... Gosh. Well....

That's the verdict then. The jury has returned a verdict of moral cowardice.

I did not seek refuge in offence. I found your post insensitive and repugnant. I said as much. Many others will find it so, too.

I do not insist that only my children are important and anyone else can go hang.
I do not think my daughter deserves protection I would deny to anyone else (or my two sons, for that matter).
I do not think myself so important that I desrerve the respect I deny others. (Actually, I'm not even sure what you meant by that question).
I make no special pleading.
I do not think that people outside my family do not deserve the dignity you seem to think I insist on for my own clan.

I merely said that I do not think mobile-phone use by drivers is a big deal. I do not.

I added later that your reference to the imagined funeral of my daughter (complete with details of imagined injuries and a closed casket) was insensitive. I still think that it was.

Anything more detailed than that may be in the disturbed, disputatious and febrile mind of the reader - whoever that reader may be.

 

[glenn forger]

I merely said that I do not think mobile-phone use by drivers is a big deal. I do not.

So you're only offended by the thought of your daughter being killed. Anyone else, pffft, not a huge problem.


You're


worse


than


seven


Jimmy


Saviles.

 

[Miquel In De Rain]

I think there had already been a collision in that case, I don't know if there was some sort of race or something. That poor woman was killed virtually outside her house.

Oh yes,racing,Can be quite common at some times on my commutes.I dislike mobiles so much because some people have enough trouble driving without having one of those things glued to their ears,one hand off the wheel.I was thinking about the differences of my commutes in the 1980's and now and I think there is a huge difference.People seem more ignorant and stupid,I don't remember having half the problems then that I have now with my commutes and mobile phones don't help.Oh yeah,less considerate as well is another word.

 

[summerdays]

I don't like the way that some of these comments have become personal attacks on each other and would normally stay out at this point. However I would like to understand Boris's point of view - as I don't.

Why are you not bothered by people using their mobile phones? They are clearly not concentrating on the road, and I know myself what happens when I let my concentration slip when I'm cycling, that I become more unsafe. I've seen people driving along texting, looking down rather than looking at the road, or last week someone on their hand held phone needed to change gear I assume as he took his one hand off the steering wheel to complete the action, rather than put his phone down.

If we are on the motorway and I see a lorry driver on his phone or other device then we get well away from that vehicle as soon as possible (not by speeding).

I agree that most of these drivers I see daily seem to get away with their below standard driving, to me that doesn't make it OK. We seem to be loosing respect for laws and each other. The fact that some lives are lost as a result of people chatting on their mobile phones means that people need to change their habits - that goes for pedestrians too who cross the road whilst not concentrating.

If we aren't bothered by mobile phone use, then should we add drink driving, speeding and going through red lights to the list of things we aren't bothered by?

 

[BentMikey]

I have to say it doesn't look very good that you're so blase about phone use until an example was drawn about your children. I hope that will make you reconsider your previously blase and inappropriate attitude towards phone drivers.

 

[Boris Bajic]

I have to say it doesn't look very good that you're so blase about phone use until an example was drawn about your children. I hope that will make you reconsider your previously blase and inappropriate attitude towards phone drivers.

Fair point, but not as I describe it.

My original comment was that I do not find it a huge deal. I do not. I see it daily (the raised position of a cyclist makes it clear when someone has a mobile on their lap). It irks, but for me it is not a big deal.

Last night my words irritated a couple of posters who got a little personal. I found the comment about imagined fatal injuries suffered by one of my children and the scenario at the funeral to be deeply insensitive. I still do.

If it were still legal to make handheld calls from a car, I would still do it. I am not alone in this.

I have forty-plus years as a cyclist and thirty-plus as a driver. I've been bowled off my bicycle (or bumped into benignly) many times. I've been in A&E for cycle crashes many times. My children ride.

I do not find it morally inconsistent that I care for my children but do not have a huge issue with phone use in cars.

It seems an emotive issue for others. For me it is not.

But the mawkish comment about the funeral was puerile and insensitive.

 

[Hip Priest]

I have to say it doesn't look very good that you're so blase about phone use until an example was drawn about your children. I hope that will make you reconsider your previously blase and inappropriate attitude towards phone drivers.

Mikey, you're an intelligent guy and I find it quite disappointing that you're defending Glenn Forger's comments. You'll see from my comment on the 1st page that I take a harsher view of mobile phone use than Boris, but just because we differ does not mean that I'll resort to personal insults or deeply insensitive fantasies about those close to him.

When people can't have a debate without dragging it into the gutter, they sour the whole site.

 

[BentMikey]

I suppose you both also think it's deeply insensitive and inappropriate to place car wrecks on the roadside/on roundabouts where drivers can see them, and can't hide from the bad side of driving?

The bad side of car culture is that most of the costs are hidden costs, not visible and easy for us to bury our heads in the sand to avoid the problems that come with car use. Don't get me wrong, I love driving and cars as much as the next person, but there is something very wrong with how so much of the bad stuff that comes with the good being hidden away.

 

[Hip Priest]

I suppose you both also think it's deeply insensitive and inappropriate to place car wrecks on the roadside/on roundabouts where drivers can see them, and can't hide from the bad side of driving?

I'm not familiar with that phenomenon, but I don't think alerting motorists to the possible consequences of careless driving is the same thing as posting a death fantasy about another person's child on the internet.

I'm genuinely staggered that so many people have leapt to Glenn's defence over these comments. This is not the place I thought it was.

 

[BentMikey]

"Death fantasy"? That's rather an extreme straw man, IMO.

 

[Hip Priest]

"Death fantasy"? That's rather an extreme straw man, IMO.

No, I don't think so.

I shall be taking my leave of this forum from now on. I'm sure there are other cycle forums where I don't have to deal with extremists.

 

[Boris Bajic]

I suppose you both also think it's deeply insensitive and inappropriate to place car wrecks on the roadside/on roundabouts where drivers can see them, and can't hide from the bad side of driving?

The bad side of car culture is that most of the costs are hidden costs, not visible and easy for us to bury our heads in the sand to avoid the problems that come with car use. Don't get me wrong, I love driving and cars as much as the next person, but there is something very wrong with how so much of the bad stuff that comes with the good being hidden away.

This (my bold) is not a supposition that follows from my not thinking mobile-phone use a big deal. I think it neither insensitive nor inappropriate.

Nor does it follow elegantly from my objection to a poster writing of the imagined fatal injuries and funeral of one I love.

I take your point, but there is a difference (a stark one) between discussing the use of roadside car wrecks as warnings and writing about the imagined death and funeral of a family member of another poster. Or am I alone in thinking that insensitive?

Glenn Forger made some unusual inferences from my writing. It appeared to offend him that I was largely unmoved by phone use by drivers. I then mentioned (in another context) that I was the parent of cyclists. This appeared to spur him on to his mawkish funeral piece, perhaps to shock me into seeing the inconsistency of my callous moral cowardice. I'm not sure how he thought that would work.

As a motorcyclist, I was taken out by a lorry driver reaching for a sandwich at a junction. It hurt. It could have been much worse. I still eat at the wheel.

For me, eating at the wheel is not a major issue. Nor is mobile-phone use. This doesn't mean I only find something wrong if it affects my family.

I understand that this is something that Glenn Forger and Cycling Dan take terribly seriously. I am happy for them that they do. I do not.

All my children cycle with enthusiasm. One is a driver and one starts to learn next month, so I have several irons in this fire. Road safety in general is quite a big deal for me. Mobile-phone use is not.

 

[mattsr]

Road safety in general is quite a big deal for me. Mobile-phone use is not.

I've only just stumbled upon this thread, and haven't read all the posts; it's clearly got quite bad-tempered and I don't wish to become part of that, however I felt I had to comment on the above, because I cannot make sense of it. If road safety in general is a big deal for you, how can you divorce mobile phone use from that? Texting/Facebooking or just talking on a mobile whilst driving is incredibly dangerous.

I just cannot reconcile the two sentences above. If road safety is a big deal for you then mobile phone use has to be as well.

 

[glenn forger]

Oh yes,racing,Can be quite common at some times on my commutes.I dislike mobiles so much because some people have enough trouble driving without having one of those things glued to their ears,one hand off the wheel.I was thinking about the differences of my commutes in the 1980's and now and I think there is a huge difference.People seem more ignorant and stupid,I don't remember having half the problems then that I have now with my commutes and mobile phones don't help.Oh yeah,less considerate as well is another word.

Nathan Davis, 27, of Normanton House, Clapham, was also charged with causing grievous bodily harm.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20857434

That's unusual. As is:

To the family of the grandmother she killed while texting at the wheel of her car, it could not have been more insensitive.

They had come to court hoping to see Nikita Ainley show some remorse – and not a little humility – at her sentencing over the death of Mary Rutherford.
Instead, they looked on as the 20-year-old arrived tapping away on her phone.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-pensioner-Mary-Rutherford-texting-wheel.html

That's the sort of self-centered pig ignorance we've seen on this thread. You're walking to your court appearance after tearing a family apart by driving whilst texting, and fiddling with your phone on the way. A special kind of person. Still, it wasn't my family, so it's not a huge deal.

 

[Boris Bajic]

I've only just stumbled upon this thread, and haven't read all the posts; it's clearly got quite bad-tempered and I don't wish to become part of that, however I felt I had to comment on the above, because I cannot make sense of it. If road safety in general is a big deal for you, how can you divorce mobile phone use from that? Texting/Facebooking or just talking on a mobile whilst driving is incredibly dangerous.

I just cannot reconcile the two sentences above. If road safety is a big deal for you then mobile phone use has to be as well.

Do I recognise that photo? Is it Elgar in the gardens of Hereford Cathedral? A lovely piece of public art. Worth a look and a slow walk round for anyone who passes that way.

I quite understand that you cannot reconcile the two sentences. You are not alone. I can and I am not alone in that either.

I am a regular motorist and cyclist and I see people using phones at the wheel daily. It doesn't upset me hugely.

As I said upthread, if it were still legal, I would still take calls when driving. I do not, but if I could I would.

I dislike (or object to) some aspects of road behaviour more than others. For me, mobile phone use barely twitches the needle of the moral-outrage seismometer.

But I've made that point and it has upset one or two other members.