Modern classics

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raleighnut

Legendary Member
I did an apprenticeship as a toolmaker in the late 80s. The company I worked for wanted to take on 2 a year, but were lucky if 1 person applied. That was probably the last decade when there were companies training people to do that work.The last 10 years has slowly seen the pay go up, as the older generation retire and there are no longer replaced by apprentices.
I have been at a few firms in the last decade that are trying to take on apprentices, but they do not come out of the scheme with the levels of skill that used to be taught. Part of this is down to cnc machining taking over a lot of the work. I still believe that you need to be able to work manual machines before you can use cnc machines. There is also the skill in using hand tools. I still see people in an engineering enviroment that cannot use a saw or file correctly.
I guess I was fortunate that I was at a good company, that gave me a good, solid engineering background that I could build more skills on as I progressed. Many firms now take apprentices on as cheap labour and are not really bothered about teaching them as long as they are making them money.
I have often thought my skill base would make a transistion in to frame building quite easily, but it is taking the plunge that makes it difficult. Maybe when I get my compensation for my accident I can look at this as a viable alternative to what I do now. I look at the work that goes into it and know I can do very good job of it, attention to detail is second nature to good toolmakers.
When I did my C&G as a furniture maker there were 2 groups of people doing exactly the same course/same exams, us on a 2yr 'fulltime' (5 days a week) basis and apprentices on a 3yr 'day release' traditional approach. Virtually all of us on the fulltime course passed but not one of the 'apprentices' did.
 
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woodbutcher

woodbutcher

Veteran
Location
S W France
When I did my C&G as a furniture maker there were 2 groups of people doing exactly the same course/same exams, us on a 2yr 'fulltime' (5 days a week) basis and apprentices on a 3yr 'day release' traditional approach. Virtually all of us on the fulltime course passed but not one of the 'apprentices' did.
I also did a full-time C&G cabinetmaking/furniture course. From a somewhat hazy memory l think everyone passed. Not everyone got a distinction though, that included me :smile:
I was 15or 16 yrs old and the C&G included full time general education to A level.This was at Rycotewood in Thame Oxfordshire, in about 1961.
We were borders and it was bloody great fun (most of the time) !
 

raleighnut

Legendary Member
I also did a full-time C&G cabinetmaking/furniture course. From a somewhat hazy memory l think everyone passed. Not everyone got a distinction though, that included me :smile:
I was 15or 16 yrs old and the C&G included full time general education to A level.This was at Rycotewood in Thame Oxfordshire, in about 1961.
We were borders and it was bloody great fun (most of the time) !
I was 30 when I did mine, having worked in an ornamental Brass foundry where we often made replica handles for furniture and things like 'Spandrels' for a long case clock restorer I'd quite got into 'Antique Restoration' however there isn't any money in that anymore so I spent 10yrs 'on the bench' at shopfitters (and occaisionally out on site) before I hit 'burnout' due to the long hours and pressure (How can a 'Designer' on twice as much as me have no idea how his latest 'creation' could possibly be built)

BTW I came 2nd in results at College, my mate Andy Holland came top but he did the course in order to learn the skills to be able to build his own guitars.

BTW this is Andy https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...0c03d7077a08&usg=AOvVaw3rZfGhqQQlju23ZrZhbGTQ
 
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SkipdiverJohn

Deplorable Brexiteer
Location
London
Think through this notion that bespoke isn’t affordable. Buy one great bike you really love, which fits you and your needs. No need for another. Wonder how much a cyclist spends on frames over twenty years. The maths might welll be in favour of a handmade frame.

If you're talking about the sort of cyclist who regularly buys new bikes on a whim which they find they can't get on with for some reason, and sell at a big loss, before buying yet another new replacement - you could well have a point.
However the bespoke maths would never favour someone like me who buys secondhand bikes and has very definite views about what sort of bike I would even consider, and only ever buys that sort of bike, with the intention of long term ownership.
 

wonderdog

Senior Member
I was 30 when I did mine, having worked in an ornamental Brass foundry where we often made replica handles for furniture and things like 'Spandrels' for a long case clock restorer I'd quite got into 'Antique Restoration' however there isn't any money in that anymore so I spent 10yrs 'on the bench' at shopfitters (and occaisionally out on site) before I hit 'burnout' due to the long hours and pressure (How can a 'Designer' on twice as much as me have no idea how his latest 'creation' could possibly be built)

BTW I came 2nd in results at College, my mate Andy Holland came top but he did the course in order to learn the skills to be able to build his own guitars.

BTW this is Andy https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi6o7meu9zYAhUGBMAKHT04B1oQFggnMAA&url=https://www.musicteachers.co.uk/teacher/0623e6150c03d7077a08&usg=AOvVaw3rZfGhqQQlju23ZrZhbGTQ

Raleigh Nut, you sound like the person I should have met yonks ago. My beloved has a lady's davenport (it's English) that has been handed down to the eldest woman in her family for the past six generations. It drives us crazy that it is missing one of the brass drawer pulls which were obviously hand made, with the drop peened onto the scratch plate ... hopefully that's the correct way of describing it. Any thoughts on the attached? (upside down, which I didn't realise when I took the pix)

Draw pull 1.jpg
Drawer pull 2.jpg
 

wonderdog

Senior Member
I also did a full-time C&G cabinetmaking/furniture course. From a somewhat hazy memory l think everyone passed. Not everyone got a distinction though, that included me :smile:
I was 15or 16 yrs old and the C&G included full time general education to A level.This was at Rycotewood in Thame Oxfordshire, in about 1961.
We were borders and it was bloody great fun (most of the time) !
I used to DREAM of repelling boarders!!
 

raleighnut

Legendary Member
Raleigh Nut, you sound like the person I should have met yonks ago. My beloved has a lady's davenport (it's English) that has been handed down to the eldest woman in her family for the past six generations. It drives us crazy that it is missing one of the brass drawer pulls which were obviously hand made, with the drop peened onto the scratch plate ... hopefully that's the correct way of describing it. Any thoughts on the attached? (upside down, which I didn't realise when I took the pix)

View attachment 391838 View attachment 391839
Are they Brass (chromed) or Pewter, they look quite complex in that the posts that the handle swings in look soldered although they could be held by bolts on the back, it will need to be disassembled in order to cast the 4 pieces it is made from. Sadly I don't have access to a Foundry these days (it closed) and I don't know anyone who casts Brass these days.
 

wonderdog

Senior Member
Are they Brass (chromed) or Pewter, they look quite complex in that the posts that the handle swings in look soldered although they could be held by bolts on the back, it will need to be disassembled in order to cast the 4 pieces it is made from. Sadly I don't have access to a Foundry these days (it closed) and I don't know anyone who casts Brass these days.

The handles are brass - they were quite manky and I've prob over-polished them. The posts are peened into place from the back of the scratch plate. Very hand made ... I'd love to be able to decipher what I assume is the maker's mark. Now off in search of a brass casting course.
 
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woodbutcher

woodbutcher

Veteran
Location
S W France
The handles are brass - they were quite manky and I've prob over-polished them. The posts are peened into place from the back of the scratch plate. Very hand made ... I'd love to be able to decipher what I assume is the maker's mark. Now off in search of a brass casting course.
Hi wonderdog, this un repentant border may be able to help shed a little light .....check this out http://www.925-1000.com/registry.html
 
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woodbutcher

woodbutcher

Veteran
Location
S W France
Hi wonderdog, this un repentant border may be able to help shed a little light .....check this out http://www.925-1000.com/registry.html
I would really like to see a photo of the complete piece of furniture, not just idle curiosity its because l was for many years a restorer and maker of "antique" furniture and l might be able to give you more info on your piece such as where it was made and made who made it .
 

wonderdog

Senior Member
Hi wonderdog, this un repentant border may be able to help shed a little light .....check this out http://www.925-1000.com/registry.html
Many thanks .. what a marvellous resource. Something else to obsess over!
I too was a boarder back in the days when the fag system was current in Oz. Tried to get expelled but to no avail. A lot of scarred kids from that time. Oliver Reed in the movie "I'll never forget whatshisname".
 
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