Motorbikes giving the go-head from Jan 5th

[Flyingfox]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7692540.stm

It seems Boris has decided that motorbikes will be able to use bus lanes from 5th Jan for an 18 month trial period . Going on todays commute some motorcyclists have brought that day forward!

Personally I think this is just an absolute disaster for the safety of cyclists. Unless this is policed properly motorcyclists are going to see it as a green light to use bus lanes as a race track and just put their foot down without any consideration for us cyclists. I wonder how long after this date it will be before the first serious incident occurs.

 

[TwickenhamCyclist]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7692540.stm

It seems Boris has decided that motorbikes will be able to use bus lanes from 5th Jan for an 18 month trial period . Going on todays commute some motorcyclists have brought that day forward!

Personally I think this is just an absolute disaster for the safety of cyclists. Unless this is policed properly motorcyclists are going to see it as a green light to use bus lanes as a race track and just put their foot down without any consideration for us cyclists. I wonder how long after this date it will be before the first serious incident occurs.

I'll have £50 on it being by 8am on the 5th of Jan

 

[yorkshiregoth]

I think it only applies to red routes initially.

 

[Origamist]

I think it only applies to red routes initially.

That's right. Red routes account for only 5% of London's roads, but carry a third of all of its traffic.

 

[Jake]

great. next headline "Cyclist deaths caused by motorbikes on increase."



"but some in the cycling community... believing they had "a devout right to use bus lanes and that nobody else should use them as well".

 

[TwickenhamCyclist]

great. next headline "Cyclist deaths caused by motorbikes on increase."



"but some in the cycling community... believing they had "a devout right to use bus lanes and that nobody else should use them as well".

There seems to be an unnervingly large proportion of the population who think cyclists aren’t allowed in bus lanes and that they deserve to get run over if they cycle in them – just check some of bentmikey’s youtube video responses… and I’m talking about people who hold UK driving licences, not just our pond hopping cousins who seem ignorant of the fact that the interweb is available outside of the US of A…

 

[BentMikey]

It's amazing, isn't it! Even more is how stupid many of them are because I end up answering the same point again and again, despite it being very visible in the comments.

 

[LLB]

great. next headline "Cyclist deaths caused by motorbikes on increase."



"but some in the cycling community... believing they had "a devout right to use bus lanes and that nobody else should use them as well".

No hint of scaremongering then

What of all the deaths in the Bus lanes from Buses, or doesn't that count ?

 

[Jake]

LOL, so just because we get one set of deaths from buses, its ok to maybe increase them more with motorobikes? that doesn't really make sense. Its like madmax out there at the best of times with MB roaring out of nowhere and coming within an inch of your life, taxis suddenly applying anchors infront, doors swinging open. I think cyclists are much more vulnerable then bikes, cars etc and we need that extra layer of protection. I'm sure there will be a sharp increase in the ammount of video clips and stories on here about how cloes people came to being mince meat.

 

[LLB]

LOL, so just because we get one set of deaths from buses, its ok to maybe increase them more with motorobikes? that doesn't really make sense. Its like madmax out there at the best of times with MB roaring out of nowhere and coming within an inch of your life, taxis suddenly applying anchors infront, doors swinging open. I think cyclists are much more vulnerable then bikes, cars etc and we need that extra layer of protection. I'm sure there will be a sharp increase in the ammount of video clips and stories on here about how cloes people came to being mince meat.

Cyclists are much more vulnerable than cars, but motorcyclists are much more vulnerable than cyclists.

Anecdotal evidence here doesn't really compare to the hard facts associated with motorcycling as most cyclists on here are either cycling drivers, or cycle/public transport commuters, so the likelihood of unbiased reporting is going to be fairly low.

The figures here are all for people Killed or Seriously Injured (KSI) which sounds dramatic but "seriously injured" can mean something that needs treating in hospital but that a lot of us would recover from quite quickly; sprains, minor fractures etc. We shouldn't play this down too much, but we all know people who have been back at work the day after being "seriously injured" in a motorcycle accident, while none of us know anyone who has returned to work after being killed. Apart from maybe the odd mortuary attendant.

Around 6,500 motorcyclists were killed or seriously injured in 2006; 599 killed and 5,901 injured. We are 51 times more likely to be KSI'd than car drivers per kilometre travelled, and twice as likely to be KSI'd as pedal cyclists.
Can everyone please just stop falling off?

About half of the motorcyclist KSIs in 2006 were on A-roads, with only 150 out of the 6,500 KSIs happening on motorways.

Taking into account the traffic levels, we're most likely to get KSI'd on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday, and between noon and 6pm. Taking into account the seasonal motorcycle traffic levels, riding in summer seems to be marginally safer than riding in winter.

The KSI rate has been falling steadily since 1994, although not as quickly as it has for car drivers and cyclists. No mention is given to the impact that "Where there's blame, there's a claim" legal action might have had on these figures.

Most motorcycle KSI accidents (about 61%) involve a car, but about 26% involve no other vehicles. It's not clear whether this latter percentage includes motorcycles crashing after avoiding hitting a car that has pulled out on them.

Despite the horror stories we might hear, in 2006 only 0.3% of accidents involved a motorcycle hitting a pedal cycle, and only 1% involved hitting a pedestrian.

49% of motorcyclists involved in "injury accidents" (I think these are different again to KSI accidents) were breath tested for alcohol, with just 3% of those failing the test; slightly below the average for all road users.

http://www.realclassic.co.uk/newsfiles/news08010300.html

 

[Origamist]

Does anyone have any stats for the number of cyclists killed in London by buses over the last few years?

Last figure I read said that one cyclist was killed by a bus in the last couple of years.

Not sure how accurate that is.

Hopefully someone else will find more recent data.

Deaths of cyclists in London 1985-92: the hazards of road traffic

Our study draws attention to the particular danger to cyclists from heavy goods vehicles. In Britain heavy goods vehicles are recorded as being involved in only 3% of all cycling accidents but being involved in 18% of deaths.3 In London the impact of heavy goods vehicles is greater: during the period under review such vehicles were involved in almost a third of cyclists' deaths in outer London and almost two thirds of those in inner London. From the estimates of vehicles use in London, the risk of heavy goods vehicles being involved in accidents in which cyclists die in inner London can be estimated at five times that of buses, 14 times that of light goods vehicles, and 30 times that of cars.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/308/6943/1534

 

[CotterPin]

Does anyone have any stats for the number of cyclists killed in London by buses over the last few years?

Last figure I read said that one cyclist was killed by a bus in the last couple of years.

Not sure how accurate that is.

This has been posted elsewhere. (And as also been pointed out elsewhere, Buffoon appears to be allowing for the idea of danger perception being a valid reason to get rid of bendy buses but discounts it when it comes to cyclists and motorbikes).

Fatal and serious accidents
Question No: 2115 / 2008
Caroline Pidgeon
How many fatal and serious accidents involving cyclists and “bendy buses” have there been each year since these vehicles were introduced?
Answer from the Mayor:
I am informed that, thankfully, there have been no fatal accidents arising from collisions between cyclists and articulated buses in London since the introduction of articulated vehicles. However, this does not weaken the case for their removal. The perception of safety is an important element in whether people decide to cycle or not. The bottom line is bendy buses contribute to the perception that cycling is unsafe, and it is my intention to correct this perception in order to get more people cycling.
Serious incidents are defined by TfL as those where a cyclist may have required treatment, including in hospital. There was one serious incident involving a cyclist in each of the years 2005/06 and 2006/07, and two in 2007/08.

 

[MarkF]

I ride a motorbike as well as cycle and IMO it makes sense to let motorbikes use bus lanes, I am surprised that it has taken so long.

 

[robz400]

What would you prefer to share a lane with, buses or m/bikes?? I know which i prefer.

Like cyclists motorcyclists are often entusiasts and therefore take pride in machine control and road craft. Your veiws about m/bikes seem to be based on a few sterotypes, exactly the same as people who label cyclists as red light jumping thugs....

Why shouldn't they be allowed in bus lanes, it would ease congestion and make progress safer for the motorcyclists.

Anyone who has ridden a m/bike through heavy london traffic trying to filter through gaps when there is a huge empty lane to the left will know the frustration it causes...

 

[Origamist]

Anyone who has ridden a m/bike through heavy london traffic trying to filter through gaps when there is a huge empty lane to the left will know the frustration it causes...

I'm guessing you have not ridden in a London bus lane (red route) in the rush hour! There are usually lots of cycles, buses and PTWs in there - very rarely are they empty...