Motorcycles in bus lanes...

[spindrift]

I don't disagree with not allowing the use of bus lanes by motorcycles as you will see if you read my other posts, and for good reason, motorcycles and bicycles just do not mix, we are the most vulnerable group of road users, we can hold our own with the busses just because they are slow-ish. Having a Hayabusa that accelerates from 0-60 in 2 seconds and weighs 500lbs at rest in the same space as a bicycle is a recipe for disaster both on safety grounds and because the two groups will invariably vie for superiority.

Oh, right. Thanks.












What were we arguing about again please?

 

[Riding in Circles]

Oh, right. Thanks.

What were we arguing about again please?

I didn't like the way the figures were presented.

 

[LLB]

Kindly peruse that thread and the evidence posted. The LCC opposed this move. The CTC opposed this move. People have studied the trials, considered the negative effect especially on novice riders who are going to have to be enticed onto the roads for the cycling boom to continue, people used to dealing with figures. The move places people in harm's way for little discernible reward to anyone. This isn't an anti-motorbike issue, it's pro-road safety and we all know that more cyclists means safer roads.

There's still time for Boris to listen to sense and stop ignoring the cyclists who voted him in, I have confidence he'll make the right choice, in between shagging his interns.

You weren't one of them, so it's no loss to him to see you going purple with rage

 

[spindrift]

I didn't like the way the figures were presented.

Which ones? You claimed the source was biased", offered no evidence that contradicts it and then denied they'd ever been posted!!?

 

[Riding in Circles]

Which ones? You claimed the source was biased", offered no evidence that contradicts it and then denied they'd ever been posted!!?

Because you did not post about peds hit by cyclists, you have no figures on the cause of the motorcycle bicycle collisions either, who was at fault in them, you failed to mention the serious injuries suffered by motorcyclists in said collisions while making a big thing of the cyclist injuries, I did not deny they had ever been posted, I said the source website presented it disingenuously and it does by the omission of the other stats.

 

[spindrift]

Because you did not post about peds hit by cyclists

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=13248


Once again, it's TFL's report that says PTWs in bus lanes is a bad idea. As long as people misunderstand this, I'll keep correcting it.

 

[LLB]

Because you did not post about peds hit by cyclists

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=13248


Once again, it's TFL's report that says PTWs in bus lanes is a bad idea. As long as people misunderstand this, I'll keep correcting it.

That is an outrageously misleading article spinners, 7 out of 8 of the PTW and ped accidents are caused by the peds themselves.

 

[LLB]

Where's the data on the cause of the accidents?

Are they all "pedestrian stepped into road without looking and bike rider was not able to stop in time"?

Pay attention at the back

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=303168&postcount=49

 

[LLB]

I repeat-

Where's the data on the cause of the accidents?

Are they all "pedestrian stepped into road without looking and bike rider was not able to stop in time"?

-Your link does not address the question. It's just a statistic from the research with no information. The research would have come to that suggestion from gathering information, and it's that information that you need to consider.

1.09 There is a need for further research in this area. However, Booth’s study (Characteristics of Urban PTW Accidents. IMC 1989) suggests that in PTW/pedestrian collisions, pedestrians are primarily at fault in seven out of eight cases.

Lost the reading glasses MrP ?

 

[Riding in Circles]

It still doesn't answer the question.

What happened in the accidents?

You're struggling again aren't you?

It is one of those items of data that isn't collected despite it being likely to be the most important piece of information required to help avoid future similar events.

 

[Riding in Circles]

I know.

Somebody does know though. That's the frustrating thing about it.

I don't know if this info could be had from insurance companies?

 

[jonesy]

That is an outrageously misleading article spinners, 7 out of 8 of the PTW and ped accidents are caused by the peds themselves.

'caused by'? You mean they deliberately put themselves at greater risk of injury than they would with other vehicles?

A thought experiment for you LLB:

In your factory there is a dangerous piece of equipment. A number of employees have been injured by it. The HSE wants to know what is going on, so you look into it and conclude that in each case the employee made a mistake, so the accident was 'caused' by them and you therefore don't plan to take any further action. Do you think that would stop the HSE from prosecuting you?

 

[LLB]

I can't find anything on this-

(Characteristics of Urban PTW Accidents. IMC 1989)

Anyone know what IMC is?

It refers to the report written by Cheshires Chief of road safety John Moss (MBE)

 

[LLB]

'caused by'? You mean they deliberately put themselves at greater risk of injury than they would with other vehicles?

A thought experiment for you LLB:

In your factory there is a dangerous piece of equipment. A number of employees have been injured by it. The HSE wants to know what is going on, so you look into it and conclude that in each case the employee made a mistake, so the accident was 'caused' by them and you therefore don't plan to take any further action. Do you think that would stop the HSE from prosecuting you?

Eh, our workplace is a very safe place considering the amount of metal removed and the speeds which it is done. All the machines have the potential to kill if anyone were to get between the workpiece and the machining head.

The only one of note which happened about 15 years ago was that one of the Turners was wearing an overall, He was stood next to the lathe and a hem on the overall got snagged in the lead screw (you know what this is ? ) The overall got drawn into the machine and dragged his arm in before the machine was stopped. He lost a couple of fingers.

Result, the company paid out, and the long hemmed overalls were changed to boiler suits for the lathe operators to avoid a re-occurrence. Some employers do have a sense of social responsibility.

I don't really get your analogy

 

[LLB]

Why is it referred to as 'Booth's study' in your link?

And where can it be found?

Oops, make that the Booth Report (1987). Cant find the report, but can find reference to it with a quick google