motorised doping?!

[raindog]

That seems to me an unfounded and possibly libellous insult to the people at Gruber Assist. Nobody is seriously suggesting that it is their actual kit being used - too noisy for a start.

+ 1
the video has nothing to do with Gruber - I believe it was put together by an Italian tv company and they used part of the Gruber publicity clip simply to show the technical aspect of how the system works.

Chris Boardman on the subject
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/boardman-warned-the-uci-of-risks-of-bike-doping

 

[gavintc]

+ 1
the video has nothing to do with Gruber - I believe it was put together by an Italian tv company and they used part of the Gruber publicity clip simply to show the technical aspect of how the system works.

Chris Boardman on the subject
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/boardman-warned-the-uci-of-risks-of-bike-doping

The Boardman comment makes sense and I think an accurate comment on the potential risks.

 

[mangaman]

+ 1
the video has nothing to do with Gruber - I believe it was put together by an Italian tv company and they used part of the Gruber publicity clip simply to show the technical aspect of how the system works.

Chris Boardman on the subject
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/boardman-warned-the-uci-of-risks-of-bike-doping

Interesting link raindog - thanks.

Here's a quote from it (from Boardman)

"I sat at a meeting with the UCI last year and drew on the blackboard exactly how this might work," Boardman told the Telegraph. "I showed them some of the sophisticated boosting technology now available, mainly from F1 teams, that can get a kilowatt out of a single AAA battery."

"And don't forget electrically operated gears are legal these days so there is already a power source on many bikes. I think it would be fair to say there was a stunned silence after I said my piece."

Typically there was also no action taken by the UCI to prevent it.

clearly the technology is there and, I'm afraid, if there's one directeur sportif who I'd guess may give it a try it would be Riis.

Witness his enthousiastic embracing of EPO when that was the new thing

 

[Ball]

If Spartacus cheated then there is nothing left. I will sell my road bike and go back to running.

I agree wholeheartedly. I'll not even sell my bike, I'll scrap it.

 

[MacB]

I agree wholeheartedly. I'll not even sell my bike, I'll scrap it.

I'm safe in the knowledge that, even with motorised assistance, i'd still not be good enough

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I'm not sure why nefarious practices in professional sport would make anyone here want to give up cycling.

And to those who think this couldn't be happening because too many people would have to know - well, this is exactly how doping used to be organised. And Bjarne Riis should know better than anyone...

 

[Ball]

Because he is an idol, someone who made me want to take up cycling in the first place and made me believe that ridiculous things really are possible on two wheels.

As they keep saying these days, professional athletes are ambassadors for their sport and this, as well as doping, would just bring too too much shame on the sport, and bring into serious doubt anything done on a bicycle in the last few years.

I wouldn't actually scrap my bike though, I've spent far too much money on it, and well, I like riding it too much.

 

[mangaman]

I'm not sure why nefarious practices in professional sport would make anyone here want to give up cycling.

And to those who think this couldn't be happening because too many people would have to know - well, this is exactly how doping used to be organised. And Bjarne Riis should know better than anyone...

I couldn't agree more FM.

In fact your video and raindog's Chris Boardman link make me think it's inevitable.

I'm not saying it's inevitable Cancellara was cheating, but it's inevitable someone will if, as Boardman says, it's undetectable unless you X-Ray the bikes, someone will use it.

Like you say - and based on past form - Riis has always looked to "gain an advantage".

Why are people so shocked Cancellara may not be 100% clean??

The way he rode the cobbled classics was, to the naked eye, a bit unusual shall we say. He's not Superman. He just accelerated away from Boonen without even getting out of the sadle and left him for dead in seconds.

 

[jpembroke]

I'm just kidding. I'm way to narcissistic to get rid of my road bike. I look great on it. Why, I look great on a tricycle. And it doesn't even have a motor.

 

[Crankarm]

Cancellara,


http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/cancellara-rubbishes-motorised-bike-claims-26393

It's frankly absurd. The people who've made this thing are desperate for publicity as perhaps they have spent a lot of money producing it and sales aren't going too well. Slandering, accusing Cancellara of cheating is really low. The video and audio footage they present could easily have been knocked up or doctored by them.

That seems to me an unfounded and possibly libellous insult to the people at Gruber Assist.

Got any evidence?

Nobody is seriously suggesting that it is their actual kit being used - too noisy for a start.

Well people are suggesting that some motor has been used to provide assistance to Cancellara.

I've actually met them at the Eurobike trade shows and like most small cycling companies they're basically enthusiast engineering types.

Very enthusiastic by the looks of it.

They are probably mortified that their concept has been linked to this episode.

Surely if they felt that they were being defamed they would request Youtube or seek an injuction to have the footage taken down or sue the Italian TV company for defamation. But I get the impression they want the publicity for their motor.

If you are an unscrupulous business mogul ruthless enough to smear an athlete for PR you'd be working for a more lucrative business than one making obscure bike parts.

I am not an unscrupulous business mogul and I don't share your view that the motorised assistance device would fall into the category of an obscure bike part. In fact I should imagine there may well be quite a large market for something like this.

 

[mangaman]

Got any evidence?



Well people are suggesting that some motor has been used to provide assistance to Cancellara.


Very enthusiastic by the looks of it.



Surely if they felt that they were being defamed they would request Youtube or seek an injuction to have the footage taken down or sue the Italian TV company for defamation. But I get the impression they want the publicity for their motor.




I am not an unscrupulous business mogul and I don't share your view that the motorised assistance device would fall into the category of an obscure bike part. In fact I should imagine there may well be quite a large market for something like this.

I think the company being libelled is a bit OTT. They're a small company and can only benefit from free publicity from RAI.

Have you read the link to Chrid Boardmsn's take on it though Cranky - posted by raindog.

The technology is already out there and according to Boardman impossible to detect without X-Raying the bikes (presumably at the start and end).

Cyclists have cheated like mad since the 1st cycle race. Any new possibility of cheating would be looked at closely by any number of DS's if history teaches us anything

 

[bikepete]

Got any evidence?

Er, yes. Your posting, which, referring to the manufacturer in question (Gruber Assist) said "Slandering, accusing Cancellara of cheating is really low." As it's in written form that's potentially libellous.

And what is your evidence for this accusation?

Well people are suggesting that some motor has been used to provide assistance to Cancellara.

Yes, so they are. If you want to make an 'invisible' system it's a layout that makes sense.

Very enthusiastic by the looks of it.

And your evidence that Gruber are in any way whatsoever actively involved in this matter is?

Surely if they felt that they were being defamed they would request Youtube or seek an injuction to have the footage taken down or sue the Italian TV company for defamation. But I get the impression they want the publicity for their motor.

The only person defaming them (AFAIK) is you in your posting and I very much doubt they even know you or this website exists.

The video etc. uses their footage as a handy illustration of the concept, no more. Everyone else seems to understand this. You are the only one accusing them of being behind this as a cynical publicity ploy.

I am not an unscrupulous business mogul

Never suggested you were. I was suggesting that the people who choose to work in small bicycle parts companies don't generally indulge in this sort of thing. Business moguls work where there's more money (betting on cycle races, perhaps). Not selling bikes.

and I don't share your view that the motorised assistance device would fall into the category of an obscure bike part.

Had you even heard of Gruber Assist before this story broke, then?

In fact I should imagine there may well be quite a large market for something like this.

In your last post you suggested that the reason for them to engage in the alleged skullduggery was because it wasn't selling well. You can't have it both ways.... as it happens the electric bike market in Germany is doing quite well, and they seem to be doing OK too - a few years ago they just did a single bike, now there's a whole range.

I can quite understand a bit of cynicism and enjoy a conspiracy theory as much as anyone but suggesting that Gruber launched this whole affair as a viral is just insulting and unfair to what I believe is a decent small company.

Do you have any evidence otherwise to back up your insinuations?

 

[TheDoctor]

Interesting link raindog - thanks.

Here's a quote from it (from Boardman)

"I sat at a meeting with the UCI last year and drew on the blackboard exactly how this might work," Boardman told the Telegraph. "I showed them some of the sophisticated boosting technology now available, mainly from F1 teams, that can get a kilowatt out of a single AAA batteryy"

"And don't forget electrically operated gears are legal these days so there is already a power source on many bikes. I think it would be fair to say there was a stunned silence after I said my piece."

Typically there was also no action taken by the UCI to prevent it.

clearly the technology is there and, I'm afraid, if there's one directeur sportif who I'd guess may give it a try it would be Riis.

Witness his enthousiastic embracing of EPO when that was the new thing

Sorry, but that is flat-out impossible. Getting a kilowatt from a single AAA battery would mean pulling 667 amps, which it won't supply even to a dead short. I don't care what kind of tech you throw at it, you're not going to hide enough batteries in a bike frame to provide a useful, sustained power boost. And the bike will weigh a tonne. Hells teeth, the best e-bike I've seen won't get you more than 20 miles at 15 mph, and that's with a dirty great stack of Li-ion cells in a big box weighing a good few kilos.
I don't believe the technology is there. Not even close. If it was, they'd be using it in electric cars, not fart-arseing about cheating in bike races.

 

[raindog]

I don't care what kind of tech you throw at it, you're not going to hide enough batteries in a bike frame to provide a useful, sustained power boost. And the bike will weigh a tonne.

The batteries fit in the seat tube above the motor and it's not made for "sustained" use - just a short burst in a certain place. The bike, or bikes, exist, and it doesn't weigh a ton, the additional weight is about two kilos. Pro bikes at the moment are so light they have to add ballast to them to get them up to the official minimum weight, and one or two kilos extra would simply make the bike a bit heavier than the usual current pro race bike, They're talking about 9 kilos or thereabouts. Have you watched the video where they demonstrate the modified race bike? Does anyone look at the links people provide?

 

[TheDoctor]

Yes, I have.
I'd like to know how anyone can stuff a usable number of batteries into the seat tube that's already full of a 22cm long motor.