My tips for cycling in France

[Jimmy Doug]

The problem with priorité a droite is that signage is rare. I'd be a lot more comfortable with the rule if the junctions were all explicitily marked, but few are. The first junction I provided a link to is, by a small cross 100 metres before (that you'll probably miss if you're not looking for it):

https://www.google.fr/maps/@49.4472...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sfQiOroSM_zmvW2zJMu85Wg!2e0

The second one never used to be, but in the last couple of years is now marked with a line in the road. The third is the more typical case, no sign at all. Go backwards as far as you like, but you'll see no warning at all.

 

[DooDah]

The problem with priorité a droite is that signage is rare. I'd be a lot more comfortable with the rule if the junctions were all explicitily marked, but few are. The first junction I provided a link to is, by a small cross 100 metres before (that you'll probably miss if you're not looking for it):

https://www.google.fr/maps/@49.4472...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sfQiOroSM_zmvW2zJMu85Wg!2e0

The second one never used to be, but in the last couple of years is now marked with a line in the road. The third is the more typical case, no sign at all. Go backwards as far as you like, but you'll see no warning at all.

Agreed, where I used to live there was a very straight road of about 6km long that went from hill to valley to hill. In the valley about 4km along there is a right turn which you must give priority to. The problem is that it is hidden by a poplar wood and you only have about 30 metres warning. There have been several severe accidents there, including a friend who wrote off his van, yet still no signs to warn people.

 

[Jimmy Doug]

[QUOTE 3197374, member: 259"]It's not just in France, in most European countries where there are no signs to the contrary, priority to the right is the rule.

In my experience it's the Dutch are probably the most fundamentalist about always taking their priority. They might as well not bother with left hand driver-side car windows there.[/QUOTE]

Yes, priorité à droite seems to be the norm in most countries on the continent. I was amazed to see it in Norway too. But I haven't been to any country where it's so prevalent, or so poorly marked, as in France. I haven't been to the Netherlands yet so I can't compare it with France. In any case, for me it's the big, black stain on the French road system which is otherwise excellent.

 

[yello]

I don't think you're quite getting if JD. It's not marked because it's the default action. Signs override it or reinstate it but if there is nothing to say otherwise then it applies. Everywhere.

So ingrained is it that you'll see it being adhered to in supermarket car parks. Cripes, probably even supermarket aisles too!!

Tbh, I can see the logic behind it, and almost like it. It's a clear and unambiguous default position that everyone knows. That's not to say that it doesn't catch me out, because it does, nor does it appear to make sense in all situations BUT I've not been brought up with it. Further, if I do get it wrong then I KNOW it - regardless of what I think, whether I think it's daft or otherwise, it's clearly evident what I should have done and who had priority.

 

[DooDah]

I don't think you're quite getting if JD. It's not marked because it's the default action. Signs override it or reinstate it but if there is nothing to say otherwise then it applies. Everywhere.

So ingrained is it that you'll see it being adhered to in supermarket car parks. Cripes, probably even supermarket aisles too!!

Tbh, I can see the logic behind it, and almost like it. It's a clear and unambiguous default position that everyone knows. That's not to say that it doesn't catch me out, because it does, nor does it appear to make sense in all situations BUT I've not been brought up with it. Further, if I do get it wrong then I KNOW it - regardless of what I think, whether I think it's daft or otherwise, it's clearly evident what I should have done and who had priority.

I think @jimmydoug does get it, quite clearly in fact. I think all he is saying is for people who don't live in France, or go there very often, it can be almost impossible to know that it exists. I will have you know that it also catches many french people out as well, even though they are aware of it, there are frequent road junctions in almost invisible positions that are not signposted either (I am talking rural france here), so giving way to the right is difficult if you don't know the junction exists. Imagine a tourist in these situations!

 

[yello]

I know it catches some French drivers out. I also see it strictly adhered to, more often than not in fact. I neither attack nor defend the rule, I merely say that I understand it and why it applies.

You make the point yourself doodah, French drivers know it applies. So if they get it wrong they equally know and accept (hopefully!) that they've got in wrong.

The alternative is to sign every single junction in the country. And we both know that's not going to happen. No, priorité à droite exists, for all it's peculiarities, to give a clear ruling for unmarked junction control. It's not perfect but it prevents ( for the most part) chaos.

I accept it's a difficult one for foreigners to get to grips with but, let's be honest, it is pretty straight forward and easy to comprehend.

 

[DooDah]

I know it catches some French drivers out. I also see it strictly adhered to, more often than not in fact. I neither attack nor defend the rule, I merely say that I understand it and why it applies.

You make the point yourself doodah, French drivers know it applies. So if they get it wrong they equally know and accept (hopefully!) that they've got in wrong.

The alternative is to sign every single junction in the country. And we both know that's not going to happen. No, priorité à droite exists, for all it's peculiarities, to give a clear ruling for unmarked junction control. It's not perfect but it prevents ( for the most part) chaos.

I accept it's a difficult one for foreigners to get to grips with but, let's be honest, it is pretty straight forward and easy to comprehend.

Yes, but it is not easy to comprehend when you cannot see the junction, travelling at 90kmh with no signs or road markings. Even French people think this is a disgrace, as do the Gendarmes who are called out to numerous incidents, yet still nothing is done. I agree, that it works generally and is easy to comprehend if one knows that it exists in the first place. I have known many Brits, who have lived in France for years, who look bewildered when I have mentioned the concept, herein lies the problem. From that perspective we are the enlightened ones

 

[Jimmy Doug]

I don't think you're quite getting if JD. It's not marked because it's the default action. Signs override it or reinstate it but if there is nothing to say otherwise then it applies. Everywhere.

I do get it. This is what I said in reply to PaulSB's post:

I'd lived here for about two years before I really did start to understand the extent of this rule. I'd known about the marked priorité à droite but rarely came across them. What took me so long to realise/accept was that this is a fundamental rule on French roads and applies at every junction unless marked otherwise.

The question is less for me whether it's a good rule or not, but whether it's consistent or not - which it isn't because, as I said in my very first post, you can find a junction that is priorité à droite in a village shortly followed by one that isn't (or vice versa). And I do think it's dangerous when it's applied to roads that you can't even see. All rules of the road are there to make driving/cycling safer. If a rule has the converse effect, which priorité à droite does in some places (the roads coming from the right that you can't see) then it isn't a good rule. The fact that PaulSB says he's been cycling in France for 35 years and hardly ever come across a priorité à droite is a case in point. What I hoped to do in my original post was alert visitors to France that this rule exists and that you have to be aware of it when cycling here.

 

[yello]

What I hoped to do in my original post was alert visitors to France that this rule exists and that you have to be aware of it when cycling here.

100% agreement. It is most definitely something to be aware of.

I was picking up on your comment of pad being "poorly marked". My point was it doesn't need to be signed as it's the default position, it exists in the absence of signage. I can see you realise that so perhaps I took your comment out of context.

I too was keen that visitors to France understood the rule, and not to depend on, or look for, a sign to tell them whether pad applies or not. People are better off thinking of it as always applying unless local signing overrides it.

 

[PaulSB]

Having read the responses, which are as anticipated, I think I need to respond. The link below gives, what seems to me, a very good summary of the current position. I'd add I think it is good practice when driving abroad to be wary of any junction of any description whether on car or bike. My view is if I'm not certain stop or slow sufficiently to be sure of avoiding a crash be it from left, right or oncoming vehicles. Much the same applies at home, especially when on a bike, I would expect to be aware of the potential danger from any vehicle at any junction regardless of the road signage.

http://www.vendee-guide.co.uk/priority-a-droite.htm and to take just one quote from the link:

"The overriding rule of the road in France is Priorité a Droite which basically means that you must give way to traffic coming from your right. It is an archaic law that dates back to the times of the horse and cart and for some unknown reason has never been repealed. It is true to say however that the French have spent thousands of millions of Euros to indicate that it does not apply in most circumstances."

As for "priorite a droite" I believe its potential "danger" (for want of a better word) is over-emphasised. I'm very familiar with the black "crossed-road" red triangle, very common in rural areas in my experience, and the yellow diamond and would respect them both. In saying I've only come across priorite a droite on 5-6 occasions I mean only experienced instances where a driver has clearly expected me to give priority. This is not because I speed along French roads blissfully ignoring the rule or other road users. As a cyclist it's the last thing I'm likely to do as I regard every vehicle as a potential hazard. Equally I'm not going to drive or cycle round France looking to exercise my "priorite a droite" at every opportunity! If I'm joining what is clearly a more major road I'll wait for a suitable gap. Commonsense.

The reality is the rule is frequently governed by local signage or road markings which usually give priority to the major route. It is something road users should be aware of, it is not a national hazard! I'd repeat in 35 years of driving and cycling in France it has never been a problem and I can't recall any of my French friends having an issue with it when I've been a car passenger. Half of France is not going to pull out in front of you from the right.

As for Holland? I worked for a Dutch owned company for 10 years, visited, drove and was driven by Dutch, French and German drivers on many occasions in The Netherlands. Until it was suggested in this thread I was totally unaware of, and never saw an instance of, the same rule applying in Holland.

 

[PaulSB]

More interesting I hope was my experience of bikes and trains. I've only once, last Friday, traveled with a bike by train. I arrived at Bordeaux station at 10.20 wanting to go to Nice. There was a train at 10.47 but unfortunately by the time I had organised where to go and what I needed to do I was just too late, on the advice of the very helpful young woman selling me a ticket, and took a train at 13.30. The trip was Bordeaux > Marseille > change > Nice by Inter City train. The Marseille train had space for at least 7 cycles but was clearly signed tandems and, what I think translated to, trailers were not permitted. Cycle storage was in a carriage designed for bikes, wheel chair users and young families with the provision of a play area. I was given a reserved seat in this carriage. The carriage was older than some others on the train and not of the standard I'd expect in the UK but was clean and comfortable though the seating could be better. There was plenty of room in the design, much more than at home. The second carriage on the Marseille to Nice train was more modern and had 6 cycle spaces. I didn't notice anything relating to tandems or trailers. On this train the lady conductor was very concerned the bike was OK and I felt happy I could keep an eye on it. She even came to find me to make sure I didn't forget the bike at Nice!!

Buying a ticket and availability was not a problem though I'm sure there are times when it's not so simple. The hardest part was getting the loaded bike up rather steep steps and through what I thought to be narrow doors.

My other tip for France would be to be aware there is often sharp sand containing small stones in places you might pull into on the roadside. Seemed much more frequent to me than in the UK. After one puncture I started running my hand over the tyre before setting off after a stop.

 

[PaulSB]

[QUOTE 3205473, member: 259"]The you were extremely lucky.

http://www.rijkswaterstaat.nl/images/Booklet Road traffic signs and regulations in the Netherlands_tcm174-337519.pdf[/QUOTE]

Happy to accept that. As I say in 10 years never heard it mentioned or was aware of it being observed. I still visit occasionally and will be aware in future

 

[mikeIow]

Well, having just finished our Lon2Paris in a biblical rainstorm, my only main advice.....would be beware your hotel room!
Had a fab ride, very hot for first 3 days then a very wet finish into Paris.....
....but at the Campanile Chaville, we were out of our for 3 humours, including 2 eating downstairs in the hotel....returned to the room.....door still locked (& yes, we are 100% certain we pulled it shut)....but found all bags opened and daughters nice Canon SLR gone along it's some cash. Thieving scum. With the room not broken into, I doubt we will successfully claim on our insurance.
Staff not desperately interested. Mind you, they weren't when serving us either. Ho hum. Lesson in life

 

[Jimmy Doug]

Well, having just finished our Lon2Paris in a biblical rainstorm, my only main advice.....would be beware your hotel room!
Had a fab ride, very hot for first 3 days then a very wet finish into Paris.....
....but at the Campanile Chaville, we were out of our for 3 humours, including 2 eating downstairs in the hotel....returned to the room.....door still locked (& yes, we are 100% certain we pulled it shut)....but found all bags opened and daughters nice Canon SLR gone along it's some cash. Thieving scum. With the room not broken into, I doubt we will successfully claim on our insurance.
Staff not desperately interested. Mind you, they weren't when serving us either. Ho hum. Lesson in life

Sorry to hear about that. In all fairness though it's the sort of thing that can happen in any hotel anywhere.

 

[mikeIow]

I'm sure it can....maybe I've been lucky, I've not had my hotel room ever opened before other than by honest cleaners !
Desk lady this morning admitted ours was one of 4 rooms entered last night.....it'll be interesting to see if Campanile pay us the €600 in good stolen: our travel insurance small print specifically excludes cases where the room is not forced open, so we will be looking to Campanile for redress once the holiday is over. I rate our chances as "pretty low"....