My visit to First Bus

[MrHappyCyclist]

I went to visit the training centre at First Bus's Bolton depot yesterday, at their invitation. This centre trains all the First bus drivers in Greater Manchester. My full blog about it is here. I thought it was worth posting this part here, though:

They then showed me some of their training materials, and I was surprised to see that all their drivers undergo classroom training on the key elements of the Bikeability national cycle training scheme. That’s right: every First bus driver knows very well why cyclists sometimes ride in the primary position, in the centre of the lane. The training materials include diagrams showing the recommended path of a cyclist at a pinch point, when passing side roads, when turning corners (including left hand turns), which all involve taking primary position. I did ask why it is that some of the drivers complain about it and rant whilst pointing at the gutter. We didn’t really get to the bottom of that, but there was clearly some frustration that this happens given the efforts they put into training about cyclists.

I got to drive a double-decker bus as well. :-)

 

[lulubel]

Interesting post and blog.

I worked for First Devon and Cornwall, and they're obviously a long way behind in technological terms because there's no means of tracking the bus or monitoring how it's being driven, although most of the buses do have cameras. There was also very little training regarding how to drive around cyclists, beyond what learner car drivers are given, and I didn't hear of any remedial training while I was there. (I left 3 years ago, though, so some of the training may have changed.)

One thing that I was really interested to see in your blog:

I was still, however, surprised at how bad the blind spots are on the nearside of the bus. A man standing level with the front wheel of the bus, about a metre away from the side, is completely invisible. I see a lot of cyclists riding up the inside, which really is very dangerous.

I've been saying buses have huge blind spots on forums for ages, and the response I usually get is along the lines of, "But, they're all glass." It's nice to see someone who is a cyclist rather than a bus driver confirming that it's true.

 

[growingvegetables]

I went to visit the training centre at First Bus's Bolton depot yesterday, at their invitation...........

Nice one - good on them/you.

I've not had the same from First Leeds, but have the very strong impression that they do the same now (I suspect know they haven't always). Arriva West Yorkshire (yes, I did see your comment!), Transdev-and-Coastliner-now-Veolia have had that kind of training and assessment in place for years and years past.

- Kinda worrying that it seems to be down to a set of individual managers, as they move around the company?
- Great that the enlightened managers are having an effect - but what about the depot managers who don't give a t***?

- and a kind of odd aside. It is VERY, VERY noticeable that a company that's got its management and training right APPEARS to have a bunch of friendly, laid-back, and relaxed drivers. Guys who look out for cyclists ... and 9 times out of 10 give you a cheery wave as well!

 

[growingvegetables]

I've been saying buses have huge blind spots on forums for ages, and the response I usually get is along the lines of, "But, they're all glass." It's nice to see someone who is a cyclist rather than a bus driver confirming that it's true.

+1

But I've only ever been a passenger. Nothing would persuade me to drive such an ungainly, clumsy pig of a vehicle, with unbelievably bad blind spots. Kudos to the lads and lasses who drive them well.

 

[lulubel]

But I've only ever been a passenger. Nothing would persuade me to drive such an ungainly, clumsy pig of a vehicle, with unbelievably bad blind spots. Kudos to the lads and lasses who drive them well.

Oh, they're not ungainly or clumsy. Modern deckers are a dream to drive. The power steering in some of ours was lighter than my car, and the blind spots down the side and at the back (once you know where they are and learn to time your checks to allow for them) are more than compensated for by the amazing visibility at the front. Also, the feeling you get when you've just taken over 10 tons of metal through a gap with an inch to spare either side is similar to the feeling of beating your PB on a favourite climb. I love driving buses, and I would have happily driven around in them all day if it hadn't been for the passengers, who were often a PITA.

Having said that, some of the old buses we had in Cornwall were interesting to drive. Old, battered, leaky, heavy steering, driver's seats that didn't adjust properly, ineffective heaters .... I can remember one rainy day when I had to drive all the way round Land's End with the passenger door open to keep the windscreen from steaming up. I loved it, and I had a bus full of tourists, so they loved it to!

 

[Keenbfb]

I had an incident this week. Whilst turning left at a set of traffic lights with indicators flashing away I had a cyclist come up my left hand side and take the corner with me if I hadn't been checking my left hand mirror he would have been under the bus, I pulled up at the next stop and waited for him to catch up so that I could have a chat with him (not a rant).

I explained that I wanted to go home after my shift and not spend the night in a police station explaining to them why there was a cyclist stuck under my bus, it ended with him in the drivers seat looking at the field of view I have in the nearside mirror he like you was quite shocked at how little could be seen. Hopefully it's a mistake that he won't make again.

My personal view is that if you can get in front of me when I'm stationary that's fine but come up the offside, I can then see you and take according action to keep us both safe, but if you can't then stay behind me the last thing I want to do is kill someone.

Were the mirrors dry when you looked in them? I can tell you visibility is almost non existent as soon as there's rain, next time you pass a bus in the rain just have a quick look at how bad the mirrors are.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

Were the mirrors dry when you looked in them? I can tell you visibility is almost non existent as soon as there's rain, next time you pass a bus in the rain just have a quick look at how bad the mirrors are.

Yes, the mirrors were dry, but they did mention the problem of extremely poor visibility in the wet.
Regarding cyclists filtering on the inside, I think part of the problem is that cyclists get bullied into the gutter by ignorant motorists. I apply all of the principles of Bikeability level 3 in my cycling, but make no mistake, it is often a miserable, stressful experience and I can well understand why cyclists who are not as pig-headed as me might just give up and hug the kerb all the time, despite the increased risk.

 

[Leedsbusdriver]

First bus do a good job of training drivers to be aware of cyclists and why they ride in primary etc.In fact during my recent periodic CPC training there was a whole piece about cyclists which was very good too.

 

[gambatte]

Yes, the mirrors were dry, but they did mention the problem of extremely poor visibility in the wet.
Regarding cyclists filtering on the inside, I think part of the problem is that cyclists get bullied into the gutter by ignorant motorists. I apply all of the principles of Bikeability level 3 in my cycling, but make no mistake, it is often a miserable, stressful experience and I can well understand why cyclists who are not as pig-headed as me might just give up and hug the kerb all the time, despite the increased risk.

They don't just get bullied. I complained to the local council recently, that their new cycle lanes on a dual carriageway went right upto the roundabouts at the end. I pointed out that they were encouraging inexperienced cyclists into one of the most dangerous positions they could be. Alongside large vehicles, in their blind spot, at a junction.
They didn't 'get it'....

 

[Leaway2]

If everyone knows about these blind spots, why is nothing done about it? It cant be beyond the wit of Man to fix it.

 

[Keenbfb]

Cost it would need camera's and screens installed in the drivers cab along with a system to keep the lenses clean.

 

[Leaway2]

Cost it would need camera's and screens installed in the drivers cab along with a system to keep the lenses clean.

was thinking low tech, mirrors.

 

[Keenbfb]

The nearside mirror is about 5ft away from the driver, I agree that it can't be beyond the wit of man to come up with something to get rid of these blind spots but it must also include an education approach to warn people how lethal it is to be in those blind spots.

 

[Maz]

I got to drive a double-decker bus as well. :-)

 

[RWright]

I got to drive a double-decker bus as well. :-)

COOOOOOL Nice of them to give you a look from a drivers point of view as well.