New bike - supplier resistance to swapping components.

[martint235]

I was just pointing out the principle of listening to customers and adapting. LBS's are a diminishing breed - maybe they have their heads in the sand at times.

I've already said that if it doesn't work for the shop then fine. If the math doesn't work for them then so be it. It's not my loss. And maybe it's not their loss.

A bit away from LBS now I admit but so is Demand Led Manufacturing. One of the big things to come out of Japan in the late 80s/early 90s was JIT: Just in Time. It means that production plants don't spend a fortune on storage of parts instead relying on modern, sophisticated ordering systems that recognise usage and order parts when required. You'll have noticed that DLM is contrary to this, it's diametrically opposite so have we come full circle or will DLM end up just being a bit of a flash in the pan? I think the latter as there is too much money to be made in the economies of scale of JIT and not enough in satisfying low level demand.

 

[bonsaibilly]

I was just pointing out the principle of listening to customers and adapting. LBS's are a diminishing breed - maybe they have their heads in the sand at times.

I've already said that if it doesn't work for the shop then fine. If the math doesn't work for them then so be it. It's not my loss. And maybe it's not their loss.

So the reason for the thread was...

 

[Profpointy]

to be honest, at the sort of money the OP mentioned I'd be expecting a pick and mix approach to spec. with a pretty much free choice of components within reason (more or less money according to what's chosen). Maybe shop has a point if "this exact bike as-built already" is a good deal - but in that case is it really such a good deal? At the very least things like handlebars and especially stem length, saddle, pedals etc ar plug and play surely?

 

[bonsaibilly]

to be honest, at the sort of money the OP mentioned I'd be expecting a pick and mix approach to spec. with a pretty much free choice of components within reason (more or less money according to what's chosen). Maybe shop has a point if "this exact bike as-built already" is a good deal - but in that case is it really such a good deal? At the very least things like handlebars and especially stem length, saddle, pedals etc ar plug and play surely?

Erm, not really. bb

 

[Profpointy]

Erm, not really. bb

well last two bikes I've bought were that sort of money (Thorn & Condor) and I had a quite involved ordering process "what wheels do you want?", "what saddle", "sit on this one so we can choose the stem lenght" "do you want XT or XTR gears?" "is this set of ratios OK?" and so on.

So yes I would expect that for £1500 thank you very much.

 

[bonsaibilly]

well last two bikes I've bought were that sort of money (Thorn & Condor) and I had a quite involved ordering process "what wheels do you want?", "what saddle", "sit on this one so we can choose the stem lenght" "do you want XT or XTR gears?" "is this set of ratios OK?" and so on.

So yes I would expect that for £1500 thank you very much.

So what? One retailer chooses to work that way, others don't. Your evidence hardly makes for a universal truth. bb

 

[Arrowfoot]

I understand what people are saying about OEM parts but a 105 mech is a 105 mech and if a future customer came in (possibly one without a good relationship with the LBS) and said "Can you fit a 105 mech to this please?" I don't see anything wrong with the LBS using the one they took off my new bike. They may even show the mech to the customer and say "This one do you?". They may even offer a small discount in order to start a new relationship without saying where the part came from.

Once folks (the staff will definitely know) come to know what the LBS does for its long standing customers and pass the parts taken out no matter how new to others the trust and integrity is gone. Would anybody accept a removed part and pay the same price as new packaged part. Would you? No credible business will operate in this manner. There is a reason things are packaged increasingly in a sealed manner. Agree on discount and the disclosure but it requires a story to be told and believed and there is cost due to the discount to be borne by the business. No sure if a business wants to go down this path.

 

[Arrowfoot]

The outlook for the traditional LBS is not very good as online firms have the market size and the logistics to custom deliver according to individual needs. LBS margins are tight. Many are now moving into premium repairs and servicing as the market share rises for sophisticated bikers and their costly machines and components need to be looked after.

When a customer enters a store and is prepared to spend couple of Ks, good businesses will throw in extras such as good lights, lubricants, cleaning gear and first service free. This is where one builds relationship. And if you are the customer spending that much money do ask for the freebies.

 

[Tin Pot]

A bit away from LBS now I admit but so is Demand Led Manufacturing. One of the big things to come out of Japan in the late 80s/early 90s was JIT: Just in Time. It means that production plants don't spend a fortune on storage of parts instead relying on modern, sophisticated ordering systems that recognise usage and order parts when required. You'll have noticed that DLM is contrary to this, it's diametrically opposite so have we come full circle or will DLM end up just being a bit of a flash in the pan? I think the latter as there is too much money to be made in the economies of scale of JIT and not enough in satisfying low level demand.

JIT is a dream. The reality is that you can tell people what to buy and they do it. Why develop slick processes for delivering products nobody may want, when you can profit from focussing on demand?

 

[martint235]

JIT is a dream. The reality is that you can tell people what to buy and they do it. Why develop slick processes for delivering products nobody may want, when you can profit from focussing on demand?

To be fair, JIT works best further back in the supply chain rather than at the point of demand. It would work for example on a stock of 105 derailleur cages for a large bike manufacturer that decided to start offering quick build to order bikes. It's not going to work for an LBS though.

Just imagine the killing you could make if you started a sofa company that had a slogan of "Order today and we'll deliver tomorrow" (That's just a tongue in cheek aside before anyone takes me seriously)

 

[vickster]

well last two bikes I've bought were that sort of money (Thorn & Condor) and I had a quite involved ordering process "what wheels do you want?", "what saddle", "sit on this one so we can choose the stem lenght" "do you want XT or XTR gears?" "is this set of ratios OK?" and so on.

So yes I would expect that for £1500 thank you very much.

Indeed. But I assume the OP is looking at mass market brands

I specced my PX on their website (not perfect as they didn't offer a 38cm bar so I compromised on a 40cm** but the bike has SRAM), Pearson built my Pave after measuring me up and discussing my needs, and a friend built my Genesis from a frame and parts I sourced myself (based on the sizing of the Pearson)

**bars now on my single speed, bought second hand off a CCer which had 42cm bars so an improvement

None of the bikes cost more than the OPs upper budget but it's still not clear what he is actually looking to buy, so they might be more expensive bikes

 

[martint235]

Indeed. But I assume the OP is looking at mass market brands

I specced my PX on their website (not perfect as they didn't offer a 38cm bar so I compromised on a 40cm** but the bike has SRAM), Pearson built my Pave after measuring me up and discussing my needs, and a friend built my Genesis from a frame and parts I sourced myself (based on the sizing of the Pearson)

**bars now on my single speed, bought second hand off a CCer which had 42cm bars so an improvement

None of the bikes cost more than the OPs upper budget but it's still not clear what he is actually looking to buy, so they might be more expensive bikes

Agree. I got both mine at PX and they are pretty much perfect for me. However where an LBS has a bike in a box I think it's unfair to **expect** them to change a part free of charge and to be miffed at them when they won't. If I wanted that then I'd go into my LBS and say "Peter, got a bit of paper. I want you to order/build me a bike with these components......" and then ask for a quote.

 

[Pale Rider]

I bought a bike from Specialized in Harrogate who put an £85 female specific saddle of my choice on it for free and gave me the one they took off for free. Bloody love that shop!

Pleased you got sorted with a nice shop - and bike - after your sub-optimal experience with that other snooty place.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Indeed. But I assume the OP is looking at mass market brands

I specced my PX on their website (not perfect as they didn't offer a 38cm bar so I compromised on a 40cm** but the bike has SRAM), Pearson built my Pave after measuring me up and discussing my needs, and a friend built my Genesis from a frame and parts I sourced myself (based on the sizing of the Pearson)

**bars now on my single speed, bought second hand off a CCer which had 42cm bars so an improvement

None of the bikes cost more than the OPs upper budget but it's still not clear what he is actually looking to buy, so they might be more expensive bikes

Focus.

Stared looking at the aluminium framed bike and ended up being more interested in the carbon framed version here:

http://www.focus-bikes.com/gb/en/bikes/2016/cyclocross/mares-cx/mares-cx-disc-105.html

 

[SpokeyDokey]

So the reason for the thread was...

As per the forum name.