No wonder many dislike cyclists

[nogoodnamesleft]

Roadside cycle lanes leading into roundabouts are lethal, as you are at the mercy of left-turning cars (or worse, lorries). There was one on my old commute. I always rode in the car lane.

I wonder if this is more because of car/van driving standards/expectations/liability in the UK. If I understand your description properly they are common place/very widespread in the Netherlands and work well. Sometimes cycle lane at edge of road becaoming a cycle lane round edge of roundabout, other times dedicates cycle lane becoming dedicated lane round outside of roundabout. But never had any problems on them, cars always stopping on roundabout to give way to me cycling. Plenty of road markings highlighting who has priority.

nb I include "liability" in possible contributory factors as Netherlands has "presumed liability" and drivers know and are very aware of that and what it means. When cycling Netherlands camping chatting to local Dutch they often raise the "presumed liability" but there is often an impression that they are in part proud of it or rather the impacts of it (safety for cyclists).

 

[blackrat]

They seemed to work well in France when I was there last year on a Rhone/Saone river cruise. Although the roundabouts where I followed them weren't super busy, there was a reasonable amout of traffic around, but drivers seemed to be aware that the cycles on the path had priority.

But the cycle lanes were marke by green paint all the way around. This being an example of one I rode around
View attachment 819962

Marking bike lanes like that would be very helpful, not only for the cyclist but drivers too.

 

[Andy in Germany]

I wonder if this is more because of car/van driving standards/expectations/liability in the UK....

nb I include "liability" in possible contributory factors as Netherlands has "presumed liability" and drivers know and are very aware of that and what it means. When cycling Netherlands camping chatting to local Dutch they often raise the "presumed liability" but there is often an impression that they are in part proud of it or rather the impacts of it (safety for cyclists).

Last time I checked, presumed liability was the rule in all European countries except (I think) Romania and the UK. It's certainly taken very seriously here.

 

[MontyVeda]

If there is such a high volume of cyclist traffic and pedestrians that this is considered an issue, and pedestrians can't cross safely because there aren't regular and large enough gaps in the traffic, then a zebra crossing is the wrong choice and it should be a light controlled crossing.

Or with the costs of installing and maintaining the infrastructure it would probably be more cost effective to recruit a local pensioner on minimum wage for the hours of rush hour to be a lollypop lady (or lollypop person in these enlightened times!)

it should be like a level crossing, with barriers, then we'd have videos of dozens of cyclists crashing into said barrier

 

[Andy in Germany]

Mod Edit:
The Grammar Nazi(see rules)/Nitpicking/OT post that Andy is answering to, has been deleted

I was writing on a German computer: worse, after 25 years my internal spellchecker seems to be localised: even when writing in English, I tend to spell words with "ie/ei" as they would be written in German.

I also tend to capitalise words apparently at random, especially nouns.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

I was writing on a German computer: worse, after 25 years internal spellchecker seems to be localised: even when writing in English, I tend to spell words with "ie" as they would be written in German.

At least when you write them it's correct in one language. When I try and spell it's not correct in any language anywhere.

 

[rogerzilla]

This is the one I really didn't like. You're potentially moving at the same speed as the cars (it's a busy road at 5pm) and you're in their blind spot. Obviously, being the UK, the bike lane gives out at the roundabout anyway!

 

[matticus]

Last time I checked, presumed liability was the rule in all European countries except (I think) Romania and the UK. It's certainly taken very seriously here.

Yes. It's amazing how many countries have it, and yet moaning pessimists in the UK (including many cyclists!) claim it would never work here, would be unfair, and lead to cyclists throwing themselves in front of cars...

 

[Pblakeney]

but drivers seemed to be aware that the cycles on the path had priority.

Not something that I would put much faith in. I'd rather just cycle in the appropriate lane taking primary and using hand signals.
Pretend you are on a moped and take it from there.

 

[Dirk Van Der Dirk]

I think we just have to accept that the UK has a fair amount of aggressive immature idiots who do not respect anyone else whatever the situation. Sadly when this attitude is had on the road, we end up with a dangerous mess. I usually go cycle touring in Netherlands and Belgium a few times a year, but went to France for a tour this year as well. Again, another country in mainland Europe where I was treated with utter respect, whether in cities or out on country roads. No idiots on small bendy lanes overtaking me at 60 mph on blind bends (happens regularly in UK), no closes passes, no horn honking by impatient fools, no verbal abuse shouted at me, just patient respectful drivers. I was on a campsite in Normandy and got talking to an elderly Dutch man who was touring with his wife. I asked if he had cycled in UK...once was the reply, never again. He went on to say that he and his wife were cycling in Suffolk, their first ride in the UK, not so long ago. They lasted barely 1 hour before cycling back to the campsite. He said they had so many closes passes, some at over 50mph, and had one moron shout and swear at them. The road they were on was the A12 at Brantham, nothing major, I cycle it a lot and can attest to their experience. He said it was sad as the UK is a beautiful country but the roads were like the wild west. Funnily enough on my way back after arriving in Newhaven on the ferry, I turned right out of the port and there was a french family, straight off the boat, all on bikes, and some bonehead in a white van went wizzing past them honking his horn. As for zebra crossings, almost weekly I am stood at one and a car just goes wizzing past with the driver just staring forward. On occasion I have gestured and had the driver open their window to tell me to eff off. What a sad pathetic little land we are.

 

[rogerzilla]

I think we can largely blame Clarkson and his ilk for pandering to the lowest common denominator.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

I think we just have to accept that the UK has a fair amount of aggressive immature idiots who do not respect anyone else whatever the situation. Sadly when this attitude is had on the road, we end up with a dangerous mess. I usually go cycle touring in Netherlands and Belgium a few times a year, but went to France for a tour this year as well. Again, another country in mainland Europe where I was treated with utter respect, whether in cities or out on country roads.

I agree. In Netherlands this year with the roundabouts being described above as a nightmare (in the UK) commonplace and this year on low recumbent even the busier ones with shrubs between the cycle roundabout and the car roundabout (shrubs hiding your presence) never any issues, cars still stopping without any tyres squealing.

I'm forming the view this is more about drivers in the UK.

 

[Punkawallah]

"..conger-productive" ?

‘Likely to produce eels’. Or, as Autocorrect would have it, ‘heels’.

 

[Rusty Nails]

I agree. In Netherlands this year with the roundabouts being described above as a nightmare (in the UK) commonplace and this year on low recumbent even the busier ones with shrubs between the cycle roundabout and the car roundabout (shrubs hiding your presence) never any issues, cars still stopping without any tyres squealing.
I'm forming the view this is more about drivers in the UK.

Sadly, you are right, in the same way as much of the criticism of cyclists is more about cyclists in the UK.

 

[briantrumpet]

I was writing on a German computer: worse, after 25 years my internal spellchecker seems to be localised: even when writing in English, I tend to spell words with "ie/ei" as they would be written in German.

I also tend to capitalise words apparently at random, especially nouns.

I think you mean Nouns 😉🤣

Linguistically, Verbs are also Nouns, but Nouns are only Verbs if they've been verbed.

French is rather the opposite to German (in which, as you know, all Nouns are capitalised), and they seem to be on a quest to see how few capitals they can use... maybe their French Letraset sheets are low on capitals.