Official Closest pass video

[jamesgibby]

I read some research recently (unfortunately can't remember where) that cars tend to leave as much space between them and a cyclist as the cyclist leaves between themselves and the curb. Therefore in general the further you are out the more room you get. Taking too submisive a secondary position can therfore encourage close passes. I guess for most cyclists it comes down to what they feel is safest.

 

[hackbike 666]

What's on paper and what's in real life are two very different things.

 

[BentMikey]

What's on paper and what's in real life are two very different things.

I often see comments like this referring to Cyclecraft, but the fact is that cyclecraft is well written, and the examples and strategies are very applicable to real life. I don't see the difference between on paper, and in reality.

I remember I set a challenge a while ago, asking forum members on the old ACF to try to come up with situations where Cyclecraft was wrong. Not one person succeeded. The closest we had was Nuttycyclist coming up with an esoteric situation where his solution was slightly different and good, but not necessarily better/worse, and it didn't show cyclecraft as wrong. There were a number of people who made comments showing that they either hadn't read the book, or didn't understand what was written in there.

 

[hackbike 666]

No I haven't read CycleCraft as it actually held my attention for two seconds...I got bored but it's around somewhere.

Luckily my road behavior isn't like that.

 

[Origamist]

I read some research recently (unfortunately can't remember where) that cars tend to leave as much space between them and a cyclist as the cyclist leaves between themselves and the curb. Therefore in general the further you are out the more room you get. Taking too submisive a secondary position can therfore encourage close passes. I guess for most cyclists it comes down to what they feel is safest.

That contradicts what Walker (Uni of Bath) found with his paper on overtaking distances. If you could find the source, I'd be grateful.

 

[wafflycat]

Got any details of where the Walker paper is online (if it is) as I'd be interested in reading it. Ta!

Edit: As the only Walker paper I know of is the one where he found that wearing a lid tended to have motorists pass closer than when cycling unlidded, which has nothing to do with the road positioning of the cyclist.

 

[boydj]

but in my opinion, cycling assertively is the way to minimise problems.

Like dangerous overtakes and close passes? Absolutely

If you creep about hugging the kerb, then you might as well not be on the road as far as a lot of drivers are concerned.

Have you actually tried? Yes - and the number of pull-outs and close passes is much increased.
Drivers probably think that anyway. But they have to deal with you properly if you are riding a wider line where you feel that is necessary.

Why should I slow down and delay my commute just to allow car drivers to get to the next set of lights a few seconds sooner?

Nice bit of motorist mentality there. I admit that is my mentality in the car too. If I have priority or I am in the process of completing a manoeuvre, such as overtaking, then faster cars coming up behind can wait until I have finished. In my experience, the vast majority of motorists are happy to wait until you clear a pinch point and I always make a point of pulling over as soon as I am clear and giving the following car an wave of acknowledgement. I don't hold up traffic unnecessarily, either in my car on on my bike.

My opinion here is because they have a big metal box which can go at least 70mph if need be.Also it can be driven recklessly at any given speed.

Im a vulnerable road user a bit like a ped. But you are governed by the rules of the road when you are on your bike.

Hackers, I would not criticise your cycling unless you described a very specific incident where I had a clear opinion. I would guess than an experienced cyclist like you will be assertive when you need to be.

I was cycling to school and work in the 60's and 70's and competing in triathlons in the 80's and 90's, so I am not exactly short of experience. I would say that when I was younger, cars drivers were much better at dealing with cyclists - probably because a lot more people cycled on a regular basis then.

 

[hackbike 666]

Yeah strange that one...I don't remember too much of cycling to work in the 80's+90's or having too much trouble....Seems now the driving is worse.

But you are governed by the rules of the road when you are on your bike.

No doubt.

Hackers, I would not criticise your cycling unless you described a very specific incident where I had a clear opinion. I would guess than an experienced cyclist like you will be assertive when you need to be.

I was cycling to school and work in the 60's and 70's and competing in triathlons in the 80's and 90's, so I am not exactly short of experience. I would say that when I was younger, cars drivers were much better at dealing with cyclists - probably because a lot more people cycled on a regular basis then.

Fair enough.Blimey you must be older than me.

There was a drop off in the 80's and 90's but I think cycling is booming again no?

I would guess than an experienced cyclist like you will be assertive when you need to be.

If I didn't take on board what people were saying on here then I think big headedness and all this im experienced and it won't happen to me crap,that would make me arrogant if im not already.

Always looking at my roads positioning and whether it can be improved over a route of which I have commuted over for 20 years.This also applies to close passes and incidents.

 

[Origamist]

Got any details of where the Walker paper is online (if it is) as I'd be interested in reading it. Ta!

Edit: As the only Walker paper I know of is the one where he found that wearing a lid tended to have motorists pass closer than when cycling unlidded, which has nothing to do with the road positioning of the cyclist.

Unfortuantely, the more interesting elements of the study got lost in all the helmetblonde wig press releases. It does measure overtaking distances relative to the road edge. I'm off home now, but will find a link later, if no one else does in the meantime...

 

[wafflycat]

I often see comments like this referring to Cyclecraft, but the fact is that cyclecraft is well written, and the examples and strategies are very applicable to real life. I don't see the difference between on paper, and in reality.

I remember I set a challenge a while ago, asking forum members on the old ACF to try to come up with situations where Cyclecraft was wrong. Not one person succeeded. The closest we had was Nuttycyclist coming up with an esoteric situation where his solution was slightly different and good, but not necessarily better/worse, and it didn't show cyclecraft as wrong. There were a number of people who made comments showing that they either hadn't read the book, or didn't understand what was written in there.

IME, I find that when I cycled where I am effectively in the gutter, I was generally given less room by overtaking vehicles than when cycling further out into the lane. I deliberately tried this over a few days, on the same road, at same time of day, with similar levels of traffic. I certainly don't cycle in the primary position all the time but I most certainly do when I feel my safety requires it. Plus, I found cycling further out from the edge of the road gave me some *escape room* on the odd occasion a motorist overtook too closely. On the odd occasion a motorist overtook me when I was cycling nearer to the gutter, that escape room was denied me.

I also find a bit of courtesy goes a long way in smoothing on-road relations between cyclist & motorist. I will willingly pull over to the side to allow a bigger vehicle to pass *if it is safe for me to do so*. But it's me who decides when it's safe, not some impatient twerp behind me. I will also acknowledge courtesy shown to me so, for example, if a motorist has stayed patiently behind me whilst I negotiate a pinch point, or a particularly bendy bit of road, once he or she has overtaken me when it's safe to do so, I will acknowledge that courtesy with a thank you wave or verbally - if safe to do so.

 

[hackbike 666]

I certainly don't cycle in the primary position all the time but I most certainly do when I feel my safety requires it.

Certainly and im happy with this.Also im more aware I have to pull out as peds generally are right on the edge of the pavement.

 

[wafflycat]

Certainly that Walker paper contradicts my personal experience on day-to-day cycling. And it also goes on to say:-

"However, there are also plenty of reasons why riders should not just stick to the road edge, e.g., debris, car doors, and drivers’ attention patterns at junctions."

 

[beanzontoast]

IME, I find that when I cycled where I am effectively in the gutter, I was generally given less room by overtaking vehicles than when cycling further out into the lane. I deliberately tried this over a few days, on the same road, at same time of day, with similar levels of traffic. I certainly don't cycle in the primary position all the time but I most certainly do when I feel my safety requires it. Plus, I found cycling further out from the edge of the road gave me some *escape room* on the odd occasion a motorist overtook too closely. On the odd occasion a motorist overtook me when I was cycling nearer to the gutter, that escape room was denied me.

I also find a bit of courtesy goes a long way in smoothing on-road relations between cyclist & motorist. I will willingly pull over to the side to allow a bigger vehicle to pass *if it is safe for me to do so*. But it's me who decides when it's safe, not some impatient twerp behind me. I will also acknowledge courtesy shown to me so, for example, if a motorist has stayed patiently behind me whilst I negotiate a pinch point, or a particularly bendy bit of road, once he or she has overtaken me when it's safe to do so, I will acknowledge that courtesy with a thank you wave or verbally - if safe to do so.

That is one of the best posts on the subject I've ever read.

 

[hackbike 666]

No I say you should ride with what works for you.What you are happy with.

I also find a bit of courtesy goes a long way in smoothing on-road relations between cyclist & motorist. I will willingly pull over to the side to allow a bigger vehicle to pass *if it is safe for me to do so*. But it's me who decides when it's safe, not some impatient twerp behind me. I will also acknowledge courtesy shown to me so, for example, if a motorist has stayed patiently behind me whilst I negotiate a pinch point, or a particularly bendy bit of road, once he or she has overtaken me when it's safe to do so, I will acknowledge that courtesy with a thank you wave or verbally - if safe to do so.

Yes works for me.

 

[wafflycat]

That is one of the best posts on the subject I've ever read.

Thank you. I find that trying to be a courteous road user (whatever method of transport I'm using) makes for a less stressful journey.

As an aside, I find that when I'm on my recumbent trike I get given far, far more road room than when I'm on a 'normal' bike. So much so that the very same car/driver who would whizz past me on a narrow lane without so much as any form of acknowledgment that I exist when I'm on any of my 'normal' bikes, will happily stop and wave me forward giving me priority on the very same lane that the day before, they passed me at speed with millimetres between us... go figure. I reckon that it's a combination of size (I take up more room on the recumbent trike - but not that much more in width), the WTF? factor at work and the illusion that being on a recumbent trike I am a disabled cyclist and they don't want to run over the disabled...