Official Closest pass video

[BentMikey]

Never in a month of Sundays.

And yet things do change and get better. I've seen a huge improvement in the behaviour and driving of bus drivers in London in the last five years. I reckon that's mostly due to the increasing numbers of cyclists, and due to those who've made the effort to complain.

If you don't do anything Lee, you're helping to guarantee that nothing will improve.

 

[BentMikey]

Buses perhaps but never Joe Bloggs out in their car. Which lets face it there are far more cars then there is buses/HGV

And company drivers? I reckon I've had an effect on those I've videoed and reported, so more cyclists doing this will result in more liveried drivers realising that consequences will come to bear on them. It's a trickle through effect.

 

[magnatom]

Yeah, but I'm just surprised that he thinks Maggers courts confrontation. I doubt that very much, personally, even if I don't happen to agree with Maggers' riding in this specific situation.

I've yet to see Magnatom court conflict and cause trouble on the roads. Sure, he might not back down from abuse and bullies, but that's not the same thing at all. He's just going about his normal commute in a legal and safe way after all, not shouting out "feck ye all, I'll have you" [1] and waving his fist at them.

[1] Maybe someone can substitute some better/funnier/more accurate Jockinese here.

Reading this made me laugh. It got me thinking about what goes through my mind when I am commuting. Not much really. I certainly don't think,

'hmm, I think there is a car behind me, I wonder if I can catch him on camera....'

In fact thinking more deeply about it, I really can't recall thinking anything in particular on this mornings commute. I think you go into concentrate mode, where your just thinking of getting from A to B. I suppose it's a bit like when I do judo. I can't remember some of my best throws. Not because I have poor memory, but because at the time, your brain is fully focussed on the task and not wasting energy trying to remember things.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is that I certainly don't go out courting incidents. I would be mad to do that. It would only take one small misjudgement from me to turn a intended incident nasty! I'm not that skillful a cyclist! Maybe you can agree with this point Lee?

 

[magnatom]

And company drivers? I reckon I've had an effect on those I've videoed and reported, so more cyclists doing this will result in more liveried drivers realising that consequences will come to bear on them. It's a trickle through effect.

...and possibly taxi drivers. As part of my complaint I have suggested a campaign with the licencing authority. Any campaign of course would have to be carefully targeted, i.e. not coming across as us against them, or us telling them what to do, but a joint campaign highlighting shared interests, problems etc.

Also remember there are excellent examples of attitudes changing, drink driving, seatbelts, and as time goes on, mobile phone use. Things can change.

 

[Riding in Circles]

Crikey Ian, that's a bit shocking coming from you!

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he causes all the problems, also some of what he has reported as bad driving isn't always as clear as he seems to think. The instance in this OP is clearly bad driving although I'm not sure I would have taken primary quite so soon, it is obvious that the car is behind and may well have made the pass sooner and safely if mag had been riding less aggressively, but that is supposition on my part as I was not there and not all the information needed is available from the aspect of the video.

 

[Origamist]

These four main disadvantages are easily addressed though. First thing I do if I stop is look behind me, you can see what the traffic is doing and easily react to it.

At lower speeds your bike is just as mobile as it is when you are going at speed, you just need to know how to use the rear brake and still turn the pedals. If you have ever done a U-turn on a mbike you will know what I mean.

Balancing a bike at lower speeds is unquestionably harder than cruising at 15mph. Do you remember kids struggling with slow bike races at school? A tip for you which I found helpful: cylce slowly in tight circles - it's a good way of improving your balance at lower speeds.

The problem with stopping by the side of the road and monitoring traffic is that you lose the benefits of being a cyclist - you are now burdened by your bike if you need to move quickly.

All strategies have plus and negative points, your approach is just another...

 

[MacB]

Why did you get wound up though?

That's the bit I don't get, not that he got wound up, but that you seem to feel that's such a cardinal sin. It really is a matter of perspective, from where I'm sitting I thought he exercised remarkable restraint Though I can see the arguements on road position and I'd probably opt for Cols' super safe apporach(because I'm a wuss like that) I see 4 seperate issues here:-

did his riding position contribute to pushing a voaltile driver over the edge?...maybe how can we know

would things have been different had he been in a more 'servile' position?....maybe how can we know

was his reaction to the driver too aggressive and therefore a further potential flashpoint and a negative contribution to cycling as a whole?....perspective, I might have chinned the guy

can any errors by a cyclist justify the use of a car as a weapon in response?...NEVER

 

[Sh4rkyBloke]

I don't see how you are burdened by a bike? I have never seen a bit or road where there is no where to go, whether it be the path that peds use or the grass verge.

Why should you have to go onto the pavement/verge though?

Col's approach is (IMO) way too servile and, without a doubt, no-one will change their attitudes towards cyclists if we all behave like that (because we'd be moving out of their way, as they expect from us).

Also, if no-one complains about bad driving then nothing will change that way either....

On the flip side though, if loads of cyclists still do the things that annoy car drivers (RLJ / ride on pavements / ride with no lights etc.) then this will help them stick to their notions about cyclists having no rightful place on the road.

It requires action and change from both 'sides'.

 

[col]

Thanks origamist. Very well put.

I should add that I call col a troll for very good reason. A thread was removed due to his assault on my character with his comments regarding my honesty.

Like i said,i say it how i see it,i gave you a choice of how it seemed to me,you picked the worse of the two and capitalised on it,i wonder why you did that?And as for an assault on character,a little dramatic dont you think?
With what you have said to me i could claim the same,but i dont as its a debate.Not a competition on who can insinuate and use words to try to annoy or upset,but keep it in such a way that there are excuses and reasons which can be used to counter such an exagerated term.The post was removed because you lost your temper and got someone to remove it,not because of this assault you speak,iv seen worse on here by far not removed,i wonder why that is,im guessing the posters didnt go shouting about them to a friend and threatening to leave the forum.
I stand by my opinion on how you cycle,in some instances it does no good for cyclists as a whole,yet you will use assumption of safety as the reasons you did or do it,ie there might have been ice,there might have been debris so i stayed on primary for my safety.I think that this has shown it to have safety flaws,like the squeeze pass,which i would say is a lot more dangerous than there being a posibility of ice or debris on the edge of the road.I know which one i would rather contend with.
Its already been shown that when you have these incidents,its counter productive to cyclists as the driver goes away having a difference with one,so the only other reason could be that you will not give or choose a safer option because you dont want to lose time on the trip,or just dont want to give to a vehicle,and would rather push your right to be there than take a safer and slower option?Whatever the reason is,you put other people at risk when these incidences happen,like the traffic on the other side of the road when a squeeze crosses the centre and causes cars on the other side to react to this pass.I know,your going to say it wasnt your fault ,the driver chose to do this.But you have to realise that there are repercussions to your actions,and if you hadnt have stayed in primary for so long,this might not happen,and if it did you wouldnt be responsible in any way,but if there had been a collision with oncoming cars by this squeeze pass,you would have contributed in some way no matter how small.

 

[BentMikey]

As I have said this has no effect on Joe Bloggs inn their car which far outweigh the number of buses/hgv'd/company drivers out there on our british roads today. I quite like having to deal with close passes anyway, keeps you sharp.

But why would you assume that bus drivers and company drivers don't drive their own cars? Of course they do, and behaviour in the company vehicle is certain to trickle to the private vehicle in many cases. You're also assuming that everyone who got in trouble will *never* tell anyone else. I bet some will, and that again will have an effect on other drivers. It's the whole trickle down effect.

Activism is known to have an effect, and it's known to work in other spheres, so of course it's going to work here too.

 

[Origamist]

No it is not, I can do slow circles on my bike all day. Using the rear brake and still turning the pedals putting drive through the bike. Go out and try it now you will be amazed at the stuff you can do. That is why I said about doing a U-turn on a mbike because it is essentially the same principle.

I don't see how you are burdened by a bike? I have never seen a bit or road where there is no where to go, whether it be the path that peds use or the grass verge.

Are you suggesting it is as easy to ride a bike at 2mph as at 15mph? The fact that you can control your bike at lower speeds is not the issue - handling a bike at very slow speeds is harder than at more usual cycling speeds, say 15mph. You are the first person I have ever come across who thinks differently...

Bikes are cumbersome when you're not riding them - particularly when you are stationary in the road, sat astride the tup-tube, and looking behind you...Escape routes are there, but you're going to get to them slower.

 

[magnatom]

I don't know, was merely answering the statement made by another member.

You will never change bad driving, it will always be on our roads the same as cyclists who RLJ, ride without lights etc. There is simply to many people, whose attitudes need to be changed.

I agree, there will always be bad driving, however, attitudes can change. Just look at the continent and how in some countries cyclists are given the uppermost respect. Sure there is still bad driving in these countries, however, cyclists are not seen as the obstacle that they are viewed as here.

 

[BentMikey]

Well obv. there will always be bad driving, but there can be a significant social shift in how we view driving, and how driving is a responsibility and a priviledge, not a right.

 

[jezhiggins]

I see 4 seperate issues here:-

did his riding position contribute to pushing a voaltile driver over the edge?...maybe how can we know

would things have been different had he been in a more 'servile' position?....maybe how can we know

was his reaction to the driver too aggressive and therefore a further potential flashpoint and a negative contribution to cycling as a whole?....perspective, I might have chinned the guy

can any errors by a cyclist justify the use of a car as a weapon in response?...NEVER

This is why I described what happened to me on Saturday. Some drivers want to get past no matter what and, since they don't come with a label on the front of their car saying "warning! i am a nutter", there's probably nothing you can do to avoid a confrontation (even in the absence of potentially aggravating factors like pinch points). None of us have perfect knowledge of the road and the other traffic, so everybody does the best we can (on the bike or in the car) and have to trust others to do likewise.

Incidents like Mag's and mine and others described here occur when somebody deliberately violates that trust. There's nothing that can excuse that.

 

[Origamist]

No, but it is just as easy with practise. Controlling a bike at slow speeds is an art like filtering, a pleasure to do and watch. If you can control a bike at slow speeds then your handling at speed will be very good.

If you fancy a slow bike race, let me know the time and place!