on-board cameras; have they made a difference?

using a camera:

  • has been a good deterrant to close passes

    Votes: 5 13.2%
  • made no difference

    Votes: 32 84.2%
  • resulted in more close passes

    Votes: 1 2.6%

  • Total voters
    38
  • Poll closed .
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si_c

Guru
Location
Wirral
I clearly need to re-calibrate my view & the way I look at these, to me that isn't too bad, I've had what I would suspect are far worse, but if the Police thought it was not good, then I'm clearly wrong.

The car is just over a foot away from the right side of the cyclist and moving closer as they pass.
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
The car is just over a foot away from the right side of the cyclist and moving closer as they pass.
That's what i am on about, to me it's at least 2 feet away (I know that is still not good) if you take the width from the crossbar to the outside of riders leg being 12 inches then the car is at least double that from the outside of the riders leg, from the still photo there is no evidence it is getting closer
 

glasgowcyclist

Charming but somewhat feckless
Location
Scotland
That's what i am on about, to me it's at least 2 feet away (I know that is still not good) if you take the width from the crossbar to the outside of riders leg being 12 inches then the car is at least double that from the outside of the riders leg, from the still photo there is no evidence it is getting closer


You can watch the video here. (The rider has come in for a lot of stick on here but I don't want this to go down that road. I'm only interested in presenting a rare example of a close pass that the police judged fit to prosecute.)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98f5j-YS5aA
 

nickAKA

Über Member
Location
Manchester
I voted "made no difference" as that's my personal experience...
However, one incident that I think warrants mentioning involved a friend of mine (female) and an aggressive driver (male) - I retell this without prejudice as I didn't witness it - the driver took exception to her road position, she's been riding & racing at a decent amateur level for years so there's no reason to suspect she was doing anything particularly wrong, but the driver lost his shoot completely with her. Words were exchanged, he then pulled in front of her and repeatedly accelarated & braked hard which, I'm sure you can imagine, was very frightening for her not to mention bloody dangerous - this was a LONE FEMALE. Eventually she gathered herself and pointed to her front light and shouted "I've got my camera on, I'm recording this!" and as you can imagine he left the scene at great pace...
A real camera would have been a great benefit but even a pretend one will do the trick...
 

col.kurtz

Senior Member
Location
nahhhridge
I thought that was just outside the city (Cringleford) so it was the county council's fault. Not that that matters much. They could still have prosecuted but end of the day, they thought they wouldn't win so decided not to try. :sad: Has anyone in authority said camera footage would have helped?

Hope you're OK and in touch with Tony Clarke and the others at Norwich Cycling Campaign.

Yes, that's the one. Aside from the Council incompetence, CCTV footage showed my father-in law outside the cycle lane by the "width of an A4 piece of paper", moments before. The Police nor CPS could decide whether this was habitual and for how long he was outside . Apparently this is grounds enough not to prosecute as the CPS didn't believe they would convict (nice bit of victim blaming). Cycle camera footage may of helped or condemned the case if it had ever gone that far. Interestingly, the same cctv captures at least two other cyclists outside the cycle lane just before the crash, a fact not discussed at any time. I believe Tony Clarke was at the inquest and the NCC have the whole sorry saga "on their books".
 

si_c

Guru
Location
Wirral
That's what i am on about, to me it's at least 2 feet away (I know that is still not good) if you take the width from the crossbar to the outside of riders leg being 12 inches then the car is at least double that from the outside of the riders leg, from the still photo there is no evidence it is getting closer

It's confusing because of the optical effect of the camera lens, objects become increasingly separated the further they are from the centre line, it's non-linear.
 

classic33

Leg End Member
You can watch the video here. (The rider has come in for a lot of stick on here but I don't want this to go down that road. I'm only interested in presenting a rare example of a close pass that the police judged fit to prosecute.)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98f5j-YS5aA

Would the amount of room given by the driver of the yellow car, have played any part in the prosecution.
I'm guessing that it passed at under 18 inches.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Interestingly, the same cctv captures at least two other cyclists outside the cycle lane just before the crash, a fact not discussed at any time.
Well, based on the times I've ridden that bit of the blue pedalway, I'd suspect they were avoiding shoot and debris in the lane, which I guess cameras might have shown, but it really should have been immaterial where they were riding because a driver should be able to stop in plenty of time to avoid even something like a wild animal there... but Norfolk juries and magistrates could easily contain some bike-basher who believes the shoot in the EDP and whatever the defence lawyer peddled :sad: Anyway, it's a disgrace and I'm glad what's hopefully a freak case hasn't deterred you - all the best!
 

Mrklaw

Active Member
Would the amount of room given by the driver of the yellow car, have played any part in the prosecution.
I'm guessing that it passed at under 18 inches.

? The yellow car is almost completely in the opposite carriageway - seems a perfectly safe pass (crept up a bit close to his backside while waiting for a gap to come up maybe)
 

Bazzer

Setting the controls for the heart of the sun.
I had been unable to reconcile the lens distortion with how I had experienced certain passes. Having given some thought to a post by @glasgowcyclist a few weeks ago about the submission making comparisons with a decent pass, I went down a different route in my most recent reports to Cheshire police. My statement included detail of the width of my side, the width of the vehicle from Google, where the vehicle wheels were and my riding distance from the kerb. I appreciate the measuring the width of your side of the road is not always practical, but from the above the passing distance is easily calculated.
The reports were positively received by the police, but due to internal politics the time for being in contact with the drivers (who had close passed me within 2 minutes of each other) passed ! :banghead:
 

al78

Guru
Location
Horsham
Surely the issue is not that they act as a deterrant, but they provide evidence of dangerous driving in the event of being involved in an incident involving a motorist. This is why some motorists have dash cams, not to deter stupidity form other drivers, but as a record of someone else s stupidity or recklessness in the event of a collision.
 

Tail End Charlie

Well, write it down boy ......
I don't suppose anyone could argue with that or your 30 years experience which has to be acknowledged when discussing such things. It reminds me of my brother and brother in law who are both serving officers but I sometimes feel their experiences can leave them with a negative attitude to all sorts going on around us. Can't blame them really as I suppose we are all just the sum of our parts.
Indeed, I think when each day you are dealing with people who are either victims or offenders, then it's easy to see the whole world in those terms. But there are huge swathes of people who don't fall into either category and I'd expect a rollicking from an officer to have an effect on those. As has been pointed out, some are shocked when they're shown how close they did actually pass.
 

Slick

Guru
Indeed, I think when each day you are dealing with people who are either victims or offenders, then it's easy to see the whole world in those terms. But there are huge swathes of people who don't fall into either category and I'd expect a rollicking from an officer to have an effect on those. As has been pointed out, some are shocked when they're shown how close they did actually pass.
I don't doubt it. I would love to see how they would react if the shoe was on the other foot.
 
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