On street vehicle charging points

[DRHysted]

And the counterpoint being put across is that the vast majority of people won't NEED to own a car. They will summon one and pay the 30p for their jouirney (or whatever).

What do you mean equivalent ? If you're talking about range still then you're missing the point.

i haven’t mentioned range once, I’m talking about an equivalent vehicle, one that has the same capabilities as my ICE. There’s no point having a car if you can’t use it!

 

[cougie uk]

i haven’t mentioned range once, I’m talking about an equivalent vehicle, one that has the same capabilities as my ICE. There’s no point having a car if you can’t use it!

What capabilities then ?

You can use EV cars for most things but you need to choose the right one for the job.

I'd not be buying a sports car for example if I did a lot of furniture removals.

 

[DRHysted]

What capabilities then ?

You can use EV cars for most things but you need to choose the right one for the job.

I'd not be buying a sports car for example if I did a lot of furniture removals.

Already mentioned my requirements when you asked previously.
As I have said EVs have a place, they are not a solution, they are not available for the common person. We are living in different worlds, I’m now bored, this thread is now on ignore.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

If I look at my car usage - about 4000 miles a year for the last 3 years - strangely lockdown did not reduce it much - which is a bit weird
actually my ebike has done about the same

and my current car is 11 years old and I can see no point in replacing it
and it cost be £7000 over 5 years ago
MOT and service - - about £150 (ish) a year
petrol - dunno - £50 every few months

so

if I want to replace it with an EV
Firstly - I would have to sell it - and the person who buys it will probably do more miles than I do
Secondly - I would have to look at a secondhand electric car - with old batteries whose lifespan is unknown - although it does seem to be dramatically higher than people thought a few years ago

to get something sensible - I normally trade my car in for something 3-5 years old

so - based on a quick scan of autotrader - the best I could do is probably a nissan leaf - 2017 for about £9000

which has enough range for most things - probably

but do I really want to spend £7000 just to get an electric car - and then allow my current car to pollute even more??

and - working up the ladder - this means another electric car on the road - hence another electric car being made - which means all the pollution and dino juice need to make it - due to my decision
- well OK - that's a bit of an extension


but overall - to move from petrol to EV would make holidays in Cornwall far more of a pain - and would cost thousands - and would help the environment very little - or even contribute to pollution and climate change (at a push)

so - in summary
my next car will probably be electric
but not yet

 

[midlife]

@Ste T. The 'issue' with EVs isn't battery life or even range, its cost.

Once you have paid for the car on going running costs are virtually £0, no VED, nothing to service, fuel at 2-3p per mile when charging at home on cheap overnight electricity. Than you factor in the fact people with driveways will find life with an EV infinity easier than those without, and EVs may/will end up increasing the social divide/inequality in been mobile.

I suspect it cost me less to be mobile in my ridiculously priced EV versus someone in a £1000 run around.

Just out of curiosity what EV do you have?

 

[DRM]

If I look at my car usage - about 4000 miles a year for the last 3 years - strangely lockdown did not reduce it much - which is a bit weird
actually my ebike has done about the same

and my current car is 11 years old and I can see no point in replacing it
and it cost be £7000 over 5 years ago
MOT and service - - about £150 (ish) a year
petrol - dunno - £50 every few months

so

if I want to replace it with an EV
Firstly - I would have to sell it - and the person who buys it will probably do more miles than I do
Secondly - I would have to look at a secondhand electric car - with old batteries whose lifespan is unknown - although it does seem to be dramatically higher than people thought a few years ago

to get something sensible - I normally trade my car in for something 3-5 years old

so - based on a quick scan of autotrader - the best I could do is probably a nissan leaf - 2017 for about £9000

which has enough range for most things - probably

but do I really want to spend £7000 just to get an electric car - and then allow my current car to pollute even more??

and - working up the ladder - this means another electric car on the road - hence another electric car being made - which means all the pollution and dino juice need to make it - due to my decision
- well OK - that's a bit of an extension


but overall - to move from petrol to EV would make holidays in Cornwall far more of a pain - and would cost thousands - and would help the environment very little - or even contribute to pollution and climate change (at a push)

so - in summary
my next car will probably be electric
but not yet

So a quick look round suggests this is a reasonably priced, brand new EV,
https://mg.co.uk/mg5-ev/
the cheapest variant is £24,995 after a £3000 grant, so in reality it starts at £27,995, it looks a nice estate car, it’s got a 214 mile range, combined driving, and is just the sort of thing that would be used as a company car, now in private use it will work well to commute to work, do the shopping, go visit friends and relatives and do a couple of long holiday trips a year, but to use it for regular long distance trips every day as a company vehicle, being charged from flat to full will kill the battery in no time
https://mg.co.uk/behind-the-wheel/electric/a-guide-to-electric-car-battery-life/
as it says in the above link, charging from 20% to 80% or more every day will kill the battery, so the car will need a new battery before being sold on, whereas the used company car even with high mileage is still useable as a cheap run around for someone, so as you put earlier poorer people will be priced off the road, whilst those who can afford a new car every 5 to 6 years, or have a company vehicle will just carry on regardless, in comparison a Tesla Model 3 seems to retail at £43,000, it‘s too much to the vast majority of people

 

[cougie uk]

DRM the vast majority of people don't use a car for long distance trips. If they do - get a Tesla and the fuel savings will pay for the car.

 

[DRM]

The model 3 is the cheapest car they make, £43,000 seems to be the asking price, that equates to 7904.41 gallons of petrol, on a long run in my own car that equals 395,220 miles, or in Mrs DRM’s little town car 513,786 miles how on God’s green earth can a Tesla EV pay for itself at that rate, the other models cost up to £100,000, that double the miles in petrol, the point being, the vast majority of people can’t afford a new car, so are effectively being priced off the road, and an old ICE vehicle can still give a useful life until the point it costs too much to repair/won’t pass an mot

 

[gzoom]

the point being, the vast majority of people can’t afford a new car, so are effectively being priced off the road

That by far is the biggest problem with EV, not range or battery degredation. But remember the days when a 40MB external hard drive cost £300, or how much 50inch TVs use to cost?

In theory EV battery prices should do the same. By 2030 I would hope most manufacturers have recouped the cost of EV development so cars will be much more reasonably placed.

 

[icowden]

but to use it for regular long distance trips every day as a company vehicle, being charged from flat to full will kill the battery in no time
https://mg.co.uk/behind-the-wheel/electric/a-guide-to-electric-car-battery-life/
as it says in the above link, charging from 20% to 80% or more every day will kill the battery,

That's not what that article says. What is says is:-

You can extend the life of the batteries by only charging them between 20% and 80% and trying not to let them drop below 50% too often. Going beyond these limits can increase the rate that the battery deteriorates over time.

The main thing that *could* reduce the capacity of your battery is repeatedly quick charging it. It's better to have overnight charges for some EVs. Most EVs cannot be charged to 100% or drained to 0% they use software management to keep the battery within operable levels and reduce wear. MG's article is ultra cautious and perhaps belies their inexperience with EVs and the design of their battery. For example, it seems to be possible to overcharge their batteries.

Tesla and Nissan give no such advice and the article about C&C Taxis in Cornwall shows that you can actually rapid charge a Leaf very frequently without losing much in terms of range.

It may seem strange but car manufacturers who have historically sold ICE cars are probably not the best people to buy EVs from. An EV is like an ICE car in the same sense that a Samsung Galaxy is like a Bakelite rotary phone. They ultimately do the same thing, but the architecture is completely different.

 

[icowden]

That by far is the biggest problem with EV, not range or battery degredation. But remember the days when a 40MB external hard drive cost £300, or how much 50inch TVs use to cost?

In theory EV battery prices should do the same. By 2030 I would hope most manufacturers have recouped the cost of EV development so cars will be much more reasonably placed.

Ideally we need a sane Government. Norway has the biggest take-up of EVs out of any country. There is no import tax on EVs, 50% decreased company car tax for EVs, exemption from road tolls, free parking, 0%VAT, nationwide access to bus lanes, free access to road ferries, 0% vat on leased EVS, and no road tax. ICE cars purchases have a levy of 25%. This means that an ICE VW Golf in Norway costs E36,600. An e-Golf on the other hand costs E25,300. 75% of new car purchases in Norway last year were EVs.

 

[icowden]

The model 3 is the cheapest car they make, £43,000 seems to be the asking price, that equates to 7904.41 gallons of petrol, on a long run in my own car that equals 395,220 miles, or in Mrs DRM’s little town car 513,786 miles how on God’s green earth can a Tesla EV pay for itself at that rate, the other models cost up to £100,000, that double the miles in petrol, the point being, the vast majority of people can’t afford a new car, so are effectively being priced off the road, and an old ICE vehicle can still give a useful life until the point it costs too much to repair/won’t pass an mot

The cheapest Tesla isn't available yet. They are looking at producing a $25,000 Tesla in about 3 years.

 

[DRM]

The cheapest Tesla isn't available yet. They are looking at producing a $25,000 Tesla in about 3 years.

So the model 3 is the cheapest Tesla available then?
Even at $25,000 to own such a car is a pipe dream for a lot of people

 

[DRM]

That's not what that article says. What is says is:-



The main thing that *could* reduce the capacity of your battery is repeatedly quick charging it. It's better to have overnight charges for some EVs. Most EVs cannot be charged to 100% or drained to 0% they use software management to keep the battery within operable levels and reduce wear. MG's article is ultra cautious and perhaps belies their inexperience with EVs and the design of their battery. For example, it seems to be possible to overcharge their batteries.

Tesla and Nissan give no such advice and the article about C&C Taxis in Cornwall shows that you can actually rapid charge a Leaf very frequently without losing much in terms of range.

It may seem strange but car manufacturers who have historically sold ICE cars are probably not the best people to buy EVs from. An EV is like an ICE car in the same sense that a Samsung Galaxy is like a Bakelite rotary phone. They ultimately do the same thing, but the architecture is completely different.

Strange that the Chinese are the largest producers of EV’s in the world, yet you claim they are inexperienced, the advice given by MG is spot on , constant charging of a li-ion cell from flat to full, is the quickest way to reduce it’s lifespan, funny that Apple also recommend exactly the same type of charging regime for their phones, charge from 20% to 80%, if it’s not to be used for a while keep it topped up to around 50% while not being used to preserve the life of the battery

 

[DRM]

That's not what that article says. What is says is:-



The main thing that *could* reduce the capacity of your battery is repeatedly quick charging it. It's better to have overnight charges for some EVs. Most EVs cannot be charged to 100% or drained to 0% they use software management to keep the battery within operable levels and reduce wear. MG's article is ultra cautious and perhaps belies their inexperience with EVs and the design of their battery. For example, it seems to be possible to overcharge their batteries.

Tesla and Nissan give no such advice and the article about C&C Taxis in Cornwall shows that you can actually rapid charge a Leaf very frequently without losing much in terms of range.

It may seem strange but car manufacturers who have historically sold ICE cars are probably not the best people to buy EVs from. An EV is like an ICE car in the same sense that a Samsung Galaxy is like a Bakelite rotary phone. They ultimately do the same thing, but the architecture is completely different.

Which is exactly what I said flat to full will kill it, as will I’ve got a long way to go, I’ll quick charge it between jobs, then go to the next one, put it on a fast charge again ad infinitum in order to get round your schedule and get back home again