One bike to rule them all? The modern Rando thread

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Pgd

Veteran
Location
East Grinstead
This is an enjoyable thread to read, as someone who has no particular inclination towards N+1.

@wafter out of interest, could you explain the preference for 650b over 700c in the context of touring/randonneur bikes? Is it simply a retro thing or are there real (or strongly perceived) advantages e.g. significantly larger tyres, or, I dunno, extra luggage space above the wheels?
 
OP
OP
wafter

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
This is an enjoyable thread to read, as someone who has no particular inclination towards N+1.

@wafter out of interest, could you explain the preference for 650b over 700c in the context of touring/randonneur bikes? Is it simply a retro thing or are there real (or strongly perceived) advantages e.g. significantly larger tyres, or, I dunno, extra luggage space above the wheels?

Glad you're enjoying it :smile:

Idealogically I'm drawn to minimalism, however in practice as many have pointed out one bike can't possibly be as capable at everything as a range and of course these choices aren't always rational either..

The 650b thing is driven by desire for tyre width and volume really - going a bit smaller on the diameter gives you more choice for fatter tyres on frames of normal proportions. 650b has a BSD of 584mm, 700c is 622mm.. a difference of 19mm on the rad suggesting you can go this much larger on tyre section; at least as long as you have lateral clearance an the chainstays / seatstays / forks.

I like the idea of going fatter for a nicer ride, plus I guess it's more suited to tubeless too if that's your thing. The gravel bike currently has 700x38s on which is nice, but I'd love to try maybe 50mm tyres.. I could fit 650bs to this bike but I think I'd still be limited by lateral clearance in the frame, while the mudguards are only 45mm wide..
 
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figbat

Slippery scientist
Glad you're enjoying it :smile:

Idealogically I'm drawn to minimalism, however in practice as many have pointed out one bike can't possibly be as capable at everything as a range and of course these choices aren't always rational either..

The 650b thing is driven by desire for tyre width and volume really - going a bit smaller on the diameter gives you more choice for fatter tyres on frames of normal proportions. 650b has a BSD of 584mm, 700c is 622mm.. a difference of 19mm on the rad suggesting you can go this much larger on tyre section; at least as long as you have lateral clearance an the chainstays / seatstays / forks.

I like the idea of going fatter for a nicer ride, plus I guess it's more suited to tubeless too if that's your thing. The gravel bike currently has 700x38s on which is nice, but I'd love to try maybe 50mm tyres.. I could fit 650bs to this bike but I think I'd still be limited by lateral clearance in the frame, while the mudguards are only 45mm wide..

I have mulled the idea of changing my 700c wheels for 650b, to enable bigger tyres. Frame clearance is fine (it is, after all, an MTB frame) but my issue is finding an economical source of wheels that mix 650b with QR and discs - not a common combo.
 
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wafter

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
I have mulled the idea of changing my 700c wheels for 650b, to enable bigger tyres. Frame clearance is fine (it is, after all, an MTB frame) but my issue is finding an economical source of wheels that mix 650b with QR and discs - not a common combo.

Aye, that does seem a bit of an odd combination; perhaps worth setting up a search on ebay..?
 

All uphill

Still rolling along
Location
Somerset

figbat

Slippery scientist

It seems reasonable for a set of new wheels, but is probably more than I spent on building the whole bike!

The wheels that are on it I got for £25 on eBay, they were like new having been taken off of a new bike for upgraded alternatives. They are really road wheels but have stood up to over 2,000 miles of enthusiastic gravel use.
 
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OP
wafter

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
The Brother Kepler looks like a decent, local contender; only let down by the straight, unlugged forks (and maybe unlugged frame of indeterminate parentage)..

Sadly I can't post a pic as their website is apparently a bit of a dick..
 
A Moden take on the thread😉

My 3t Exploro LTD

Jacob’s ladder decent (about the limit of the bike, with my skills anyway), this in 650b mode with 52mm tyres

IMG_5943.jpeg


Gravel mode in the Alps

IMG_5421.jpeg


Then as a tourer up the Tourmalet (last years TDF)

IMG_5784.jpeg


Now serving as my winter ride with 32mm Panaracer Gravel Kings on👍🏻

One bike, 2 wheel sets and an extra set of tyres and it becomes a very flexible bike that goes every where with me in the van.

This summer it‘s off to upper Norway for some Arctic Circle gravel rides😉
 
D

Deleted member 121159

Guest
The Brother Kepler looks like a decent, local contender; only let down by the straight, unlugged forks (and maybe unlugged frame of indeterminate parentage)..

Sadly I can't post a pic as their website is apparently a bit of a dick..

They're updating the fork to lugged for 2024!
 

freiston

Veteran
Location
Coventry
I find it increasingly frustrating to have my choices dictated by fashion-driven constructs of marketing dickheads, and it's refreshing to see a little enclave of resistance to this commercially-driven whitewash that ultimately does few of us any favours.

I think for me these bikes represent the pinnacle of what can be achieved for the "average" rider - capable, versatile, fun, resiliant and authentic. It saddens me that there's seemingly nothing on offer of a similar vein this side of the pond, but I find encouragement in the fact that such bikes exist at all and hope that my "journey" continues to bring me closer to this ideal :smile:

I'm sold - what does everyone else reckon?

I know where you're coming from and to a great extent, I'm coming from the same place - but I think there's some irony/contradiction in your stance that you're frustrated having choices dictated by fashion-driven constructs [of marketing dickheads] but you are putting your own aesthetic and technical restrictions into play in an exercise to find ultimate functionality.

Personally I like modern welded steel frames without lugs, I like sloping top tubes, I'm not appreciating any particular functional superiority of 650b wheels. I also like the look of a traditional frame and polished alloy - but I also like a modern sloping top-tube and black components.

Gear ratios that are useful, mudguards, racks, wide tyres, comfortable non-competitive frame geometry, components that aren't fussy with what they're grouped with - these are all things that I like.

For many years I was, forced by circumstances, a one-bike rider. I started out cycle-camping and day riding when I left school several decades ago but my cycling lapsed and most of the time, I was primarily a utility rider. A lot of those years, I rode second-hand or cheap but decent bikes (no BSO).

Over the last ten years or more, I have got back into cycling earnestly and bought myself a touring bike - this was the bike to do it all for me. Then I bought a folder, with the idea of taking it on public transport as part of my commute - but this didn't work out (primarily because the bike is still big folded up and not practical on crowded buses or trains) and the bike has been largely unused. Recently I got a new job and the best commute is a bike ride to the railway station followed by a train journey. I didn't want to leave my (relatively) expensive touring bike at the station so I bought a second hand 25 year old hybrid. This bike is now my utility bike. My touring bike is steel, 3x9 with friction bar-ends and cantilever brakes.

Then last year (last month actually), I bought another bike - my fourth - because I wanted something that would be more capable of off-road riding than my 32mm tyred touring bike. It's a non-drop bar bike with sloping top tube and black components. I was originally looking at the Spa Wayfarer with all polished alloy components but with the progress of components, I decided to go for something with more "cutting edge" technology.

This isn't a nod to the fashion-driven constructs of marketing dickheads but an honest and serious response to technological advancements, endeavouring to look beyond fashion and to long-term practicality (after all, an 8 or 9 speed drivetrain was once cutting edge and dismissed by some as marketing excesses).

So now I am a four-bike rider (but only three of them in proper use) even though I have been primarily a one-bike rider for many decades. I still consider myself to have the ethos of a "one-bike-to rule-them-all" rider, and I still have practicality in both purpose and mechanics foremost in my criteria.

But I no longer feel that, aesthetically or functionally, that restricts me to the likes of Rivendall and Velo Orange (even though I do find those sort of bikes to be "gorgeous"). However, it could be construed that my current idea of one bike to rule them all is a product of modern fashion over traditional non-commercial values.

And if you're wondering - this is my new "one bike" (even though I still want a cheap utility bike and there's better bikes for unladen road rides):

53472354157_dad0952446_h.jpg
 
OP
OP
wafter

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
I know where you're coming from and to a great extent, I'm coming from the same place - but I think there's some irony/contradiction in your stance that you're frustrated having choices dictated by fashion-driven constructs [of marketing dickheads] but you are putting your own aesthetic and technical restrictions into play in an exercise to find ultimate functionality.

Personally I like modern welded steel frames without lugs, I like sloping top tubes, I'm not appreciating any particular functional superiority of 650b wheels. I also like the look of a traditional frame and polished alloy - but I also like a modern sloping top-tube and black components.

Gear ratios that are useful, mudguards, racks, wide tyres, comfortable non-competitive frame geometry, components that aren't fussy with what they're grouped with - these are all things that I like.

For many years I was, forced by circumstances, a one-bike rider. I started out cycle-camping and day riding when I left school several decades ago but my cycling lapsed and most of the time, I was primarily a utility rider. A lot of those years, I rode second-hand or cheap but decent bikes (no BSO).

Over the last ten years or more, I have got back into cycling earnestly and bought myself a touring bike - this was the bike to do it all for me. Then I bought a folder, with the idea of taking it on public transport as part of my commute - but this didn't work out (primarily because the bike is still big folded up and not practical on crowded buses or trains) and the bike has been largely unused. Recently I got a new job and the best commute is a bike ride to the railway station followed by a train journey. I didn't want to leave my (relatively) expensive touring bike at the station so I bought a second hand 25 year old hybrid. This bike is now my utility bike. My touring bike is steel, 3x9 with friction bar-ends and cantilever brakes.

Then last year (last month actually), I bought another bike - my fourth - because I wanted something that would be more capable of off-road riding than my 32mm tyred touring bike. It's a non-drop bar bike with sloping top tube and black components. I was originally looking at the Spa Wayfarer with all polished alloy components but with the progress of components, I decided to go for something with more "cutting edge" technology.

This isn't a nod to the fashion-driven constructs of marketing dickheads but an honest and serious response to technological advancements, endeavouring to look beyond fashion and to long-term practicality (after all, an 8 or 9 speed drivetrain was once cutting edge and dismissed by some as marketing excesses).

So now I am a four-bike rider (but only three of them in proper use) even though I have been primarily a one-bike rider for many decades. I still consider myself to have the ethos of a "one-bike-to rule-them-all" rider, and I still have practicality in both purpose and mechanics foremost in my criteria.

But I no longer feel that, aesthetically or functionally, that restricts me to the likes of Rivendall and Velo Orange (even though I do find those sort of bikes to be "gorgeous"). However, it could be construed that my current idea of one bike to rule them all is a product of modern fashion over traditional non-commercial values.

And if you're wondering - this is my new "one bike" (even though I still want a cheap utility bike and there's better bikes for unladen road rides):

View attachment 719373

All entirely valid points and I think we're ultimately arguing from the same perspective... granted some of my choices are driven by aesthetics rather than functionality; however I'd argue that while still subjective these are a matter of style (i.e. intrinsic aesthetic value) rather than fashion (transient, constructed / dictated aesthetic value).

Further, I'd argue that any aesthetic concerns are secondary to functionality, and that this is my biggest problem with fashion-driven trends. Objectively the modern trends of disk brakes or through-axles have many benefits and as such should be embraced. Conversely, other, recent trends are more dubious from this perspective - press-fit BBs, internal cable routing or the ongoing quest for a million speeds on the cassette, for example.

I agree with your position on multiple bikes (which I'm not going to list unless you really want me to; as it seems a little crass); I currently have six and it seems that they broadly echo your own. I aim to cut this down to five and, from a functional / non-sentimental perspective at least could go to three without too much grief.

I'm not necessarily suggesting that going down to one bike would be a superior choice to what I have currently from a functional perspective (although it'd make storage a damned sight easier and I generally try to tend towards minimalism); simply that the bikes that are the subject of this thread distill all the facets that I find appealing in a bike down into one example; and as such would represent my ideal bike if I could only own one.

Your new bike looks very nice - I think green ones are generally the best :tongue:
 

Donger

Convoi Exceptionnel
Location
Quedgeley, Glos.
I'm just happy to have a second bike on stand-by in the garage in case of a not immediately repairable mechanical failure on No.1 bike.

No.1 bike was actually a straight upgrade of what has now become No.2 bike. Both Ridgeback Panorama steel touring bikes that can pretty much do anything and go anywhere. I'm just happy to have a second bike on stand-by in the garage in case of a not immediately repairable mechanical failure on No.1 bike. It is also nice to know that I can cannibalise anything I want from the older bike for use on the newer one if parts become hard to get. The running gear is the same, and I have many of the same add-ons on both. Only the wheels are different, as the newer bike has disc brakes and the older one has rim brakes, so I also have a spare pair of wheels on hand for each bike.

I don't think I shall start hankering after any more bikes unless my legs start to give out and I have to go over to the dark side (e-assist) any time in the future. Quite apart from anything else, I have history with those bikes. We've been places together and achieved things. Couldn't let either go.
 
OP
OP
wafter

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
I'm just happy to have a second bike on stand-by in the garage in case of a not immediately repairable mechanical failure on No.1 bike.

No.1 bike was actually a straight upgrade of what has now become No.2 bike. Both Ridgeback Panorama steel touring bikes that can pretty much do anything and go anywhere. I'm just happy to have a second bike on stand-by in the garage in case of a not immediately repairable mechanical failure on No.1 bike. It is also nice to know that I can cannibalise anything I want from the older bike for use on the newer one if parts become hard to get. The running gear is the same, and I have many of the same add-ons on both. Only the wheels are different, as the newer bike has disc brakes and the older one has rim brakes, so I also have a spare pair of wheels on hand for each bike.

I don't think I shall start hankering after any more bikes unless my legs start to give out and I have to go over to the dark side (e-assist) any time in the future. Quite apart from anything else, I have history with those bikes. We've been places together and achieved things. Couldn't let either go.

lol - what was your reasoning for that; just a backup, or a too-good-to-miss price?

Glad I'm not the only one who's apparently tacitly driven to buy more of the same once I've got something I like :tongue:
 
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