Open water swim training first attempt

[Flying_Monkey]

I haven't been in the lake yet, but I will this weekend. In the meantime, I've been doing about 50 lengths (1250m), plus some other specific exercises, every other morning. I'll change the plan for the next two weeks, to focus on speed over 750 metres one day a week (for my first sprint tri on the 24th), increasing distance on another (first to 60 lengths (1.5km)+ for the Olympic distance tri, and then to 80 lengths (2km)+ for the two of the events I am doing this year that will involve swims of that distance), and open water on the weekend.

 

[VamP]

Blenheim Palace team relay: 750 m in 16.01 minutes. Phew, didn't drown and popped my OW competition cherry. The only way is up!

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Blenheim Palace team relay: 750 m in 16.01 minutes. Phew, didn't drown and popped my OW competition cherry. The only way is up!

Well done! I haven't been timing my swims at all yet...

 

[VamP]

Well done! I haven't been timing my swims at all yet...

Thanks. I haven't timed myself at all in training, as I figured it would not help me get any faster. I was desperately hoping to be sub 20 minute, so my time was a delightful surprise, especially as I struggled to get a good breathing rhythm going and got freaked by the crowds.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

got freaked by the crowds.

This is really not a big problem at Canadian tris!

I had a nice 60 lengths this morning and will be in the lake on the weekend. First competitive open water tri swim in just over a week - it's down as a Sprint Tri, but the swim section is only 500m. The cycling is longer though - suits me!

 

[007fair]

My first OW sprint tri was on Sunday Cold and wet was the weather.. the swim was HORRIBLE! Very cold and after 150 m I was getting breathless - every inhale I could feel water going up my nose and every exhale was hard under water due to the coldness. Then panic started to creep in I felt like i was half way up climbing a cliff and getting vertigo I really just wanted to chuck it. I fipped onto my back and spent a few minutes breathing quick and deep .. I recovered somewhat and was breathing ok so I tried to swim again but this time slower and easier. Was better and I found I could keep going .. the more I swam the better it felt and I was able to finish - with much relief!

The cycle and run were quite good although it was wet still weather wise and I finished in 1:29:11 which was about what I expected.

I will try another one but from that experience starting the swim slowly is a must. I don't want that experience again!

 

[Flying_Monkey]

My first OW sprint tri was on Sunday Cold and wet was the weather.. the swim was HORRIBLE! Very cold and after 150 m I was getting breathless - every inhale I could feel water going up my nose and every exhale was hard under water due to the coldness. Then panic started to creep in I felt like i was half way up climbing a cliff and getting vertigo I really just wanted to chuck it. I fipped onto my back and spent a few minutes breathing quick and deep .. I recovered somewhat and was breathing ok so I tried to swim again but this time slower and easier. Was better and I found I could keep going .. the more I swam the better it felt and I was able to finish - with much relief!

The cycle and run were quite good although it was wet still weather wise and I finished in 1:29:11 which was about what I expected.

I will try another one but from that experience starting the swim slowly is a must. I don't want that experience again!

I don't know if this will help you and I am no kind of swimming coach, but I was lucky enough to be trained to swim last year by an open-water endurance swimming world record holder and she said that two of the most common errors in swimming are:

1. Not rolling enough. People often are under the impression that trying to stay straight in the water is a good thing. It isn't. You should be rolling in the direction of the arm you are using for each stroke (so as you stretch out your right arm, you roll right) and more than you think. This is far more efficient and if you feel you are taking in water when you breathe all you do is roll a little further - it might feel like you are almost breathing almost on your back, but really you aren't.

2. Not stretching out and gliding enough. Basically for open water swimming you should be stretching out your arm as much as possible, and gliding as much as you can. When you roll to breathe, your head almost rests on your arm as you glide (remember, you are rolling). If your arm is already on the downstroke as you are breathing you aren't stretching and gliding enough.

Now, I know the latter contradicts what a lot of triathletes do when they swim, which is the very short and straight down stroke, but it is a far more efficient method and will generally help you if you are feeling that you can't breathe without getting mouth-fulls of water and can't relax.

 

[fimm]

Well done 007fair! I was wondering how you got on.
I thought the swim was OK - I've done colder swims - but for your first open water tri I can well understand that it wasn't pleasant. I wasn't very happy with my overall race as I very stupidly didn't check my bike before I racked it and when I started riding I had some friction somewhere. Never did work out what the problem was - and then I got stuck in the big chain ring. Run went OK. I think I clocked 1:28ish. I'll have to track down my times from the last time I did it and see how they compare. Realistically, if I want to be at all competitive I need to do some serious work on my swimming as I spent the entire bike and run leg passing people... (and of course being passed by the fast men coming along behind).

 

[007fair]

I agree FM relax relax relax will be my moto next time. Maybe the Durty in July.

Well done 007fair! I was wondering how you got on.
I thought the swim was OK - I've done colder swims - but for your first open water tri I can well understand that it wasn't pleasant. I wasn't very happy with my overall race as I very stupidly didn't check my bike before I racked it and when I started riding I had some friction somewhere. Never did work out what the problem was - and then I got stuck in the big chain ring. Run went OK. I think I clocked 1:28ish. I'll have to track down my times from the last time I did it and see how they compare. Realistically, if I want to be at all competitive I need to do some serious work on my swimming as I spent the entire bike and run leg passing people... (and of course being passed by the fast men coming along behind).

Hey FIMM .. forgot you were there too. So there are colder swims .. I must toughen up! 1:28 ish sounds good - well done! - although I don't know what you were expecting. It wasn;t the cold that was the main issue I think - I just rushed my technique a bit and as FM alluded to - Basically I was tense then panicked a bit. Once I recovered I was Ok but can't say the swim was enjoyable! Cycle and run were fine but I will leave the Standard distance till next year.

When do they release the full results? would be interesting to compare times I am sure T1 was about 3mins for me

 

[dslippy]

I come to these forums as a swimmer just beginning cycling. Having competed as a masters (old) swimmer for twenty years I have a fair idea, if anyone wants a tip or two.

We go open water swimming sometimes (Gaddings Dam - high above Todmorden and pretty close to God). It can be cold. I don't understand wet suits. The bits which wet suits don't help with are hands and feet. Which bits are the ones which get cold?

Swimming tips?
- It is 90% technique. Far more than in cycling and running, giving full respect to the complexity of both. Best get some coaching.
- Practice drills. I swim with proper swimmers. Nobody is above recognising the need to practice technique.
- The drag of the water is so substantial, that you will improve far more by removing drag.
- Be proud of your bum. You should (eventually) feel your that bum is breaking the surface of the water on every stroke. If not, then your body and legs are operating as pretty effective brakes. How? Lean on your sternum. Use the Total Immersion videos and books and always go back to the very basic drills, building from them once you have mastered them.

'Rolling' is not quite right. It is rotation - the body changing from swimming on one hip to swimming on the other without losing the balance discovered using the TI drills.

 

[Arsen Gere]

So as a total immersion fan what do you make of Harry Wiltshir ?
(Search youtube, I can't post links from this office, sorry)

 

[dslippy]

Good video (and Swim Smooth are worth listening to)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDsBTpygrks


The obvious thing is that his arms are untidy above the water, but a high arm stroke can be necessary in choppy water. The only difficulty this might cause is that his hands really hit the water, and as they enter. This just creates resistance, and, if you watch, his hands take a lot of bubbles down into the water with them. That means that his catch is in the middle of broken water, and will not be as powerful.
His bum is high, so the brakes are off. That is a big help.
He has almost no kick, but few distance swimmers kick hard. I think that if he put a proper big beat on his kick (bigger left foot kick as left hand enters etc), he would go link up the front and back engines and find that they worked together to push him forward much better.
He appears to breathe only to one side. In a pool that is fine, but in open water you need to be able to breathe to either side both to see others and in choppy water to choose the better side to breathe.
Watching from above you will see his bum moving from side to side - rolling. This creates unnecessary resistance. He needs to rotate around his long axis.
His arm movements are not that bad. If you watch his right arm from side on, he clearly drops the elbow underwater. His left arm is better to begin with. Again, that should be improved. It follows from learning to rotate the upper arm more as it enters the water. That allows the hand and forearm to lead the catch and stroke from the get go, and to keep it that way through the stroke.

He might also relax his fingers a little, and make his palm wider across the knuckles. He would have a bigger and more effective paddle.

All this is quite unfair.
One of the good outcomes of the Swim Smooth coaching style is the allowance that different things work for different people. And what he does works far better for him than I ever managed for myself.

 

[Arsen Gere]

Yup and 47:55 for 3.8k at Bolton IM 2012. Wish I could swim that bad

 

[dslippy]

Well, you asked, and I did say it was unfair. It is unfair because he has the courage to put it all out there on film, and we do not know what he was trying to achieve. He is for sure faster than I ever have been - but I did not start until I was nearly twice his age,and that was many years ago.
I doubt entirely that he has not been told everything I have said a dozen times (at least) by his coaches.
He is very fit, very young, a professional athlete, with a specialism in swimming, and good swim coaches. I see he was swimming the demo at the John Charles Pool. He is among good coaching staff. He might well knock a few minutes off that time if he listened to them a bit more, and more again if the swim you refer to was in a wet suit.
Take a look at videos of the swimmers in the Olympics. You will see a wide variety of stroke styles. Even so, very few will not have a much better style. Read a few blog posts from swim smooth about technique, and then look again at HW.
If I sat on my bike and was filmed, the list of my mistakes would be much longer and more severe, and properly so. I am overweight, over 60, and a complete beginner. Swimming is very technique driven. It is not sorted just by getting fitter.

 

[Piemaster]

Went for my first OW swim on Thursday and 2nd one today here
Loving it. Found I was a lot more relaxed and the swim easier today, think a little anxiety on Thursday and first swim in a wetsuit didn't help (falling out of sailing dinghies doesn't count as swimming).
Another couple of first timers there as well today.