Overtaking (lack of) etiquette

[potsy]

whatshisname (the piper guy leading the mice)

You are so funny

 

[Pat "5mph"]

The pied piper of Hamelin?

Si' signore! That's the one!

 

[Pat "5mph"]

You are so funny

Did you see this?

 

[potsy]

Did you see this?

I have now

 

[gaz]

Could he be a club rider? I noticed quite a few club riders are very comfortable overtaking with mm's to spare.

 

[Boris Bajic]

OK, yesterday I was behind a slower cyclist, and another cyclist was behind me. I checked behind for a gap, called out "coming past on your right, mate" to the guy in front, and proceeded to overtake.

Next thing I know the one who was behind me came past me without a sound, so close that his left elbow made significant contact with my right arm. He could easily have made me come off.

Not an apology, he just blasts off. I tried to catch him, but he turned off at the next junction.

There was enough room for him to have given me more space, and if there wasn't, he should have waited until there was. Idiot.

Anyway, I'll look at the video to see if it's worth putting up. Rather annoying.

Yes, it is annoying and your sanguine response is creditworthy. It has happened to many of us in more than one mode of transport - and many of us have been the cause too....

It raises an interesting point about the issues arrising when three vehicles (bicycles or similar) converge in the same direction at three different speeds. All need to be accutely aware of the intentions and position of the others.

You gave a verbal indicator (a good thing and I rarely bother when on road) but did the chap behind hear you?

He won't have been listening out, but may have been watching for your hand or arm to give some indication. You may have indicated, but there is no mention of your having done so.

You knew he was there and that he was closing on you, but his pass on you seems to have surprised you (up to a point). This suggests that you may not have shoulder-checked just before pulling out. I'm not saying you didn't... I wasn't there.

These situations can assume Rashomon-like qualities, so in a sense it matters not whether you did.

But... As the three of you converged the rear cyclist will certainly have been thinking about who would pass whom first. You and Johnny Slowboat were both in his field of vision and he could see your relative rates of convergence. He may or may not have made a judgement.

If (very big if) he pulled out to pass you momentarily before you pulled out, he may feel aggrieved and you may have been experiencing a 'punishment pass'. Very wrong, but some would say mitigable. I would not; particularly the contact - which can be catastrophic).

Once you knew he was closing from your rear and once you'd decided to overtake Johnny Slowboat, both you and Carbo-Missile had a responsibility to check and respond to the speed, changes of direction and indications of the other.

It is a shitty thing and it is annoying, but this happens quite a lot in cars, on motorcycles and on bicycles. Mr Carbo-Missile sounds a wrong 'un, but the finger of rightful admonishment in these situations sometimes points slightly towards Johnny-in-the-Middle too.

I write the above with no knowledge of the situation beyond your words in the OP, but having seen similar things a billion times and using my own natural prejudices to come to the right conclusion.

 

[benb]

You gave a verbal indicator (a good thing and I rarely bother when on road) but did the chap behind hear you?

He won't have been listening out, but may have been watching for your hand or arm to give some indication. You may have indicated, but there is no mention of your having done so.

You knew he was there and that he was closing on you, but his pass on you seems to have surprised you (up to a point). This suggests that you may not have shoulder-checked just before pulling out. I'm not saying you didn't... I wasn't there.

I don't think I did indicate. I gave a shoulder check, and the rear cyclist was 10-15m away. I then pulled out to pass the guy in front of me. It was several seconds after this that he blasted past me making contact, and there was heaps of room for him to give me.

As the three of you converged the rear cyclist will certainly have been thinking about who would pass whom first. You and Johnny Slowboat were both in his filed of vision and he could see your relative rates of convergence. He may or may not have made a judgement.

If (very big if) he pulled out to pass you momentarily before you pulled out, he may feel aggrieved and you may have been experiencing a 'punishment pass'. Very wrong, but some would say mitigable.

I definitely didn't pull out into his path. I pulled out immediately after my shoulder check, and he was still in line astern at that point.

Once you knew he was closing from your rear and once you'd decided to overtake Johnny Slowboat, both you and Carbo-Missile had a responsibility to check and respond to the speed, changes of direction and indications of the other.

I expected him to overtake us both at the same time, just not that close!

It is a shitty thing and it is annoying, but this happens quite a lot in cars, on motorcycles and on bicycles. Mr Carbo-Missile sounds a wrong 'un, but the finger of rightful admonishment in these situations sometimes points slightly towards Johnny-in-the-Middle too.

I write the above with no knowledge of the situation beyond your words in the OP, but having seen similar things a billion times and using my own natural prejudices to come to the right conclusion.

I think the only things I could have done differently were:
1) done a proper indicate
2) let him overtake us both before I did my overtake

But there wouldn't have been a problem at all if he had just gone wider in the first place, which there was plenty of room to do.

 

[Boris Bajic]

I appreciate your frank response and have been in your situation (as described) many times. It can be galling.

It sounds as though he either misjudged his pass (hard to do on a bicycle) or was perhaps 'punishing' you for some imagined slight or perceived lack of manners. Only he will know this.

What is striking is your 'things I could have done differently' list:

If a car driver had a close shave and wrote 'the only thing I could have done differently was do a proper indicate ', then one or two cyclists might have had some choice words for him. I write this not to condemn, but to illustrate an amusing comparison.

I admire your candour in this piece and I have done the same thing many times. The man at the rear needed to know you were pulling out and a shout to Johnny Slowboat doesn't count as indication. Nor does a shoulder check.

I'm jolly glad you came through it OK and had the good grace to let it go.

 

[benb]

Yep, you're right. I'll indicate next time.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

especially if they have a nice arse. can happily follow a nice behind for hours

Last time I did that I missed the turning for my own house by a mile and a half before I realised it!


GC

 

[GrasB]

The problem with indicating to overtake stationary or moving vehicles is that it can be mistaken for a right hand turn into a drive, etc. I'm not saying it's wrong, just there's a problem. It's a bit of a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Yep, you're right. I'll indicate next time.

use your left hand behind your back to indicate to other riders you are pulling right. It avoids misinterpretation of your intent by motorists.

 

[subaqua]

are you sure thats not another signal, judging by the saddle position

 

[wiggydiggy]

I'm not indicating for overtakes or making little gestures, I'll always do a shoulder check and will happily hang back a short while if I see someone too close. Thats enough I think?

How many riders out there will recognise that gesture anyway, or mistake it for someone that thinks they are playing volleyball

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I'm not indicating for overtakes or making little gestures, I'll always do a shoulder check and will happily hang back a short while if I see someone too close. Thats enough I think?

How many riders out there will recognise that gesture anyway, or mistake it for someone that thinks they are playing volleyball

everyone that ever rides with a club or group. but heck, ignorance is bliss.