Paint adhesion problem. How to resolve? Any paint experts here?

[I like Skol]

I am slowly fitting a new bathroom with no particular time restraints so have already dragged this out over 6 months for various reasons.....

2 weeks ago I painted the room with the final paint finish but now find this is not really adhered at all well. This was noticed when moving some of the furniture around and a light rub removed some of the paint. I then scraped it with my nail and the paint comes off almost as easily as that silver stuff they put on scratch cards to hide the winning numbers. I then did a tape test using some electrical insulation tape as I know that is not massively sticky so should not be an unreasonable test. The paint lifts off when the tape is removed!

As far as I am concerned I did perfect preparation before painting. The walls are sound plaster in good condition and have been previously painted with no problems. I washed down the walls before giving them a couple of coats of Crown magnolia matt emulsion left over from another room to make sure the surface was clean and uniform. This adhered well and was allowed to dry for at least 6-8 weeks before I painted with the final paint. The paint used is from B&Q and is mixed to your choice of colour from sample cards they have in a huge rack. It is Valspar Classic kitchen & bathroom specific paint and is described as "scrubbable with everyday durability".

Clearly this is not right and the paint is not stuck. It has had 2 weeks to dry properly but is still the same. I now have a number of problems;

1. The paint is quickly going to look awful as any contact is likely to scratch it off.
2. I suspect once the room is used as a bathroom and gets steamy (there is an extractor fan) the paint is going to start lifting.
3. How can this be resolved? Painting over it isn't going to improve the adhesion and removing it seems an almost impossible task.
4. Bathroom fitment has now stopped as I can't do any more until the paint issue is resolved.

So, what has gone wrong? The matt emulsion used as an undercoat between the original paint and the new stuff should provide the perfect base for anything as it is not oil based or shiny smooth.

I have phoned the paint manufacturer and they have asked me to raise a complaint via the customer service email address and they will offer a solution 'as a goodwill gesture'! I'm not sure what goodwill element there is, their product doesn't work. I don't want a refund or replacement paint, I want them to come and get this carp off my walls and put me back to the position I was in before.

I will raise the complaint as requested but does anyone have any advice for me re: legal position or technical advice before the discussion with the paint company gets technical?

 

[Milkfloat]

My first question is what is the paint below - if it is vinyl/silk/bathroom paint then you will need to really key the surface to get adhesion.

 

[Jody]

My dad was in the paint game for 30 odd years.

I'll ask him later if he has any suggestions.

 

[I like Skol]

My first question is what is the paint below - if it is vinyl/silk/bathroom paint then you will need to really key the surface to get adhesion.

As I said in the OP, the bathroom paint was cleaned and painted over with matt emulsion which has stuck well. I then waited 1-2 months before painting with the Valspar bathroom paint which has not adhered to the matt surface at all. The matt surface should be a perfect base and the room is not in use so nothing has coated the matt surface after it was applied.

 

[Poacher]

I'm no expert! However, having taken care to thoroughly rub down a previously gloss coated stairs handrail and window sill, then used Valspar V700 wood and metal, I'm really not impressed by the adhesion. In fact it's been a bloody pig of a job!

I've concluded that Valspar is not of a quality commensurate with its price, and certainly won't be using it next time (if there is a next time!).

 

[Cycleops]

Should be okay, it's an emulsion like your undercoat, so compatible.
I looked on their website and a lot of negative reviews for your paint. Nobody said it flaked off but many said it was terrible with one comparing it to water so looks like Valspar are aware.
Shouldn't hold your breath for someone coming to remove it for you FoC

 

[si_c]

If it's starting to flake off with minimal contact then I wouldn't be willing to put up a replacement of the same, particularly if online reviews are poor. Not the easiest solution, but might be worth sanding back to the undercoat, cleaning, re-prepping and then putting on some better paint.

We've had to do a lot of painting recently having done a lot of renovation work on the house, we did consider using Valspar paints as they seemed readily available through B&Q, but mixed reviews did put us off, in the end though we went to Bromborough Paints who are only a couple of miles away, and they've mixed up a lot of paint for us from trade paints and it's all gone on perfectly and been cheaper than the branded paint we were getting colour matched as well.

Might well be worth speaking to a local independent paint shop.

 

[Milkfloat]

When it peels does it bring the magnolia emulsion from underneath with it or does that stay?

 

[presta]

I don't think there's going to be much alternative to paint stripper, and starting again with better quality paint. I always use a hot air gun because I don't like the idea of chemical stripper residue attacking the new paint, but that's on woodwork, I doubt it will work on plaster, will it?

I have some peeling in the kitchen, but that's right back to the plaster, so probably the original from when the house was built 75 years ago. I also have some woodwork where I was tempted to try rubbing down with the green scouring pads B&Q sell for the job instead of sanding, it's the only time I've skimped on prep, and it was a mistake, it's peeling. I always use Dulux, and have never had any problems that I would put down to the paint itself.

(Back in the 1960s my mother used to reckon that Woolworths own-brand paint was the best that money could buy, beating all the big names hands down. )

 

[sleuthey]

Scrape all the paint off. Sand down the wall with 80 grit paper. Apply one coat of Bullseye Zinser123 diluted with 10% water. Apply 2 top coats of premium emulsion that says wipe clean on the tin.

 

[Hicky]

I have had loads of building work done over the last three years after moving and with a view to a baby coming along bought Fukui easycare(wipeable), I’ve had two dodgy batches where I’ve had to scrape it off and start again with a new tub. The adhesion is awe full and pulls very easily when painting/cutting in. It’s not great. I think most modern paints are poor. “The restoration couple” have over the years trialled plenty of alternatives to the usual bnq offerings. Pricey but seemingly gets their vote.

 

[newts]

Did you water down the first coat of Valspar? Matt emulsion is very absorbant, The vinyl paint has probably dried too quickly & not adhered properly.

 

[dan_bo]

Damp plaster is not your friend...nor is shiny plaster. Other than that I've got nothing for ya.

 

[MontyVeda]

bathrooms innit... that water vapor gets everywhere, even under the paint.

 

[Jody]

I've just got off the phone with my dad and he has an idea whats happened.

Apparently Matt paint doesn't contain vinyl these days so it won't offer a bonded layer for the next paint to adhere to. He reckons if you take a piece that's come away and look at the rear it will have paint residue on it, or to wet you finger and rub the surface that was next to the Matt which should also leave residue. This would cause it to peel.

If that's the case your only option is to strip it off and either use a coat of watered down PVA or another sealant. Then use the paint you want over that layer.