Paper Helmet ??

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Wobblers

Euthermic
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Cardboard is surprisingly strong. It is, after all, made out of the same material as wood - cellulose - so, weight for weight, is as strong as rigid as steel. With careful design, I see no reason why a cardboard wouldn't perform as well as a conventional helmet. I expect it to be as solid as is claimed. But note, @jonny jeez, that there are no claims about the helmet actually meeting any accepted standards. A bicycle helmet that does not meet even the dismal standards of EN1078 cannot receive a CE mark and be sold in the EU. In law it is not fit for purpose. So you cannot say that it offers protection. It very well may do - but that hasn't been proven yet.

Given that, you might wonder just why aircraft and bridges aren't made of cardboard. Or perhaps not, you're probably more than aware of the pesky fact that cardboard disintegrates when it gets wet! A plane in which the wings fall off in a shower isn't much good (especially if you're at 3,000 feet at the time!). Considering the complex construction of this helmet - which is crucial for its strength - even a small amount of dampness is highly likely to severely compromise its ability to provide any meaningful protection.

From an engineering perspective, unfortunately this could not be more wrong:
Thing is though....and the helmet haters will love this comment...even when wet and a bit soggy, its still probably no less safe than a solid full time lid.

Except it's actually worse than that - sweat will cause just as much damage as rain. A cardboard, or papier mache, helmet will break down on a hot day, or if you're working hard. Now, the article talks about there being a protective layer. The problem is, sebum from the skin, and salt from sweat are very good at breaking down such protection - so the "3-4 hours" rain resistance is optimistic. It is likely to be much less, especially on hot days when the user will most likely be unaware of just how much damage perspiration is doing to their helmet. This sort of invisible failure mode is very bad indeed, and one that engineers tend to try and avoid wherever possible. Durability is thus also questionable even in places where (unlike Wet West Britain) it doesn't rain often.

In short, its lack of reliable water protection is a severe show stopper.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
"She hopes to pitch the new helmet in New York in the spring, possible offering it free to bike-share users at first".
What would that make the people it is potentially to be offered to, crash test dummies?
Yep. I'm also wondering what innovative alternative uses New Yorkers will find for it. There's got to be some way of tying two together to make a ball for catch and football, hasn't there? :laugh:
 

jonny jeez

Legendary Member
Cardboard is surprisingly strong. It is, after all, made out of the same material as wood - cellulose - so, weight for weight, is as strong as rigid as steel. With careful design, I see no reason why a cardboard wouldn't perform as well as a conventional helmet. I expect it to be as solid as is claimed. But note, @jonny jeez, that there are no claims about the helmet actually meeting any accepted standards. A bicycle helmet that does not meet even the dismal standards of EN1078 cannot receive a CE mark and be sold in the EU. In law it is not fit for purpose. So you cannot say that it offers protection. It very well may do - but that hasn't been proven yet.

Given that, you might wonder just why aircraft and bridges aren't made of cardboard. Or perhaps not, you're probably more than aware of the pesky fact that cardboard disintegrates when it gets wet! A plane in which the wings fall off in a shower isn't much good (especially if you're at 3,000 feet at the time!). Considering the complex construction of this helmet - which is crucial for its strength - even a small amount of dampness is highly likely to severely compromise its ability to provide any meaningful protection.

From an engineering perspective, unfortunately this could not be more wrong:


Except it's actually worse than that - sweat will cause just as much damage as rain. A cardboard, or papier mache, helmet will break down on a hot day, or if you're working hard. Now, the article talks about there being a protective layer. The problem is, sebum from the skin, and salt from sweat are very good at breaking down such protection - so the "3-4 hours" rain resistance is optimistic. It is likely to be much less, especially on hot days when the user will most likely be unaware of just how much damage perspiration is doing to their helmet. This sort of invisible failure mode is very bad indeed, and one that engineers tend to try and avoid wherever possible. Durability is thus also questionable even in places where (unlike Wet West Britain) it doesn't rain often.

In short, its lack of reliable water protection is a severe show stopper.
Sounds to me like an engineering brain and a design brain should get together and create a market ready product.

Which is one of the objectives that this design competition is aiming to facilitate.

I appreciate your objective, engineering view though, interesting.
 

jonny jeez

Legendary Member
You are continuing to overlook the point that the designer is talking about it as ready to release into the wild in New York in the spring. To do that she has to be thinking of it as market ready, or very close to market ready.
I think market ready and very close to market ready, are potentially a world apart.

Neither you or I know what the designer is planning tondo to make the product market ready, orbhow ling that will take.

What we do know and what you are continuing overlook is that this design has met the criteria set out within the competition brief.

Well enough to win the competition .
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
I think Dyson probably picked it because he hates cyclists. After all, they use bikes/cycles which are basically English (he prefers the far east), an established design (he prefers new stuff he can patent and withhold from others) and invented by someone else!
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
I think market ready and very close to market ready, are potentially a world apart.

Neither you or I know what the designer is planning tondo to make the product market ready, orbhow ling that will take.

What we do know and what you are continuing overlook is that this design has met the criteria set out within the competition brief.

Well enough to win the competition .
This is what that brief says:

"The brief is broad. We’re looking for designers who think differently to create products that work better. Engineers who follow an iterative design process. Rough and ready prototypes. Products that have a significant and practical purpose, are commercially viable, and are designed with sustainability in mind"

Designers who think differently? No. The idea has been tried many times.
Products that work better? No. The product doesn't even work, let alone better than the alternative.
Engineers who follow an iterative design process? That's a definition of an engineer.
Rough and ready prototypes? Rough, certainly. Not really ready or a prototype - which imples a product that just needs a manufacturing process but is otherwise ready to go. This is more of a concept.
Products that have a significant and practical purpose? As multiple threads demonstrate that's, at best, debatable.
Commercially viable? Frankly - no. You'd need to manufacture and distribute so that you can sell for 10p a time to get commercial viability if your business model is an add-on to a £2 bike ride. That's implausible.
Designed with sustainability in mind? Definitely not. It's a use once, throw away product.
 

jonny jeez

Legendary Member
You keep banging on about this competition brief but what of it? Have you read the brief? As it says, the brief is broad. At the end of the day, it seems to come down to does James Dyson like the look of it. I am not understanding why you feel this competition aspect is especially relevant here, what we are talking about is what the object is supposed to be offering, and whether or not it is viable in that aim.
The fact that it fulfilled his brief does not alter the fact that the designer has stated their intention, and is planning on going live next spring. To do that they have to be regarding the current design as the finished article, or close to the finished article. In this context I reckon that the phrase close to carries it's normal meaning, and that isn't potentially a world apart.
Then you are clearly missing the point of the competition.
 
That is because I am not in the slightest bit interested in the competition. The competition is irrelevant. This thread is about the object. To remind you what the OP says

We are discussing whether or not this item is suitable for its purpose.


Which was established all the way back on page 6
 
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