Paper Helmets

[Linford]

I can't believe that you typed that with a straight face.




I've already contributed. I think you were too busy posting bollocks to notice...

I've struggled in the past to get past your illusions of grandeur to see if there is value in what you post. Would you liek to have another go with a bit more humility ?

 

[Linford]

[QUOTE 2882358, member: 45"]So they had experience then?[/quote]


Yes, but you don't acquire experience without actually doing things..is there an easierway of saying this ?

Anyway, start another thread if you want to do this and leave the Kranium one for a debate about it eh ?

 

[Fab Foodie]

I bloody despair .....

 

[ufkacbln]

If Cunobelin starts posting on any helmet debate, he instantly drags it toward 'why aren't pedestrians wearing lids'...not what is the eefectiveness of the particular lid. Every single debate he gets into with this subject ends exactly the same way....and I'll tell you why...he doesn't want to know about any improvements in cycling safety...he really isn't interested....he just wants to rubbish them all....allI can say is thank heavens he doesn't work in my local HA.....how he can be trusted with peoples lives in an Xray dept is beyond me....the bloke is not the full ticket!

I think that this post really says all about Linford's poor understanding of this debate... and the content really sums up his contribution and debating style

It is obvious that Linford is going to continue posting lies and inaccuracies but I think that FF is correct and there is no further point in trying to point out reality to him.

 

[theclaud]

It is obvious that Linford is going to continue posting lies and inaccuracies but I think that FF is correct and there is no further point in trying to point out reality to him.

Phew!

 

[Venod]

You do realise that means Linf has now won this thread*?


* But only In Linfworld.

There are winners & losers ?

 

[swansonj]

There are winners & losers ?

Well, there are certainly losers, quite a lot of us. Not sure about the winners.

 

[swansonj]

That would be a rotational insult to add to the injury

So if we all wear helmets while we do it, does that make it better or worse?

 

[srw]

My impression is that hardly anyone is scared of flying these days, given the numbers who do it, but I must admit I haven't gone looking for stats as it's not the central issue of the thread. I'm guessing that numbers of users, cheapness, and convenience are the central factors in encouraging people to see flying as a normal everyday activity. (OK, there are arguments to be had about the rightness of that too, but not here.)

Popular, cheap, convenient - you could almost be talking about cycling...

I've been cycling across central London for 17 years. In that time the city has been transformed from one dominated by the internal combustion engine to one dominated by the bicycle. I've been cycling (more or less all year round) locally to home for about 8 years. When I first started, even in summer, I rarely saw another cyclist. Yesterday, on the 19th of January, at temperatures in the low single digits, in a two-hour bike ride, we passed about 25 other cyclists - none in club groups.

That's a sign of a radically changed environment, one which I don't think long-term cyclists or policy-makers have quite worked out the implications of.

 

[Wobblers]

Anyway, well said McW. Unlike the other stuff I think this does bear repeating. Maybe more people will pick up on it if we do and we'll get a more interesting discussion.

My impression is that hardly anyone is scared of flying these days, given the numbers who do it, but I must admit I haven't gone looking for stats as it's not the central issue of the thread. I'm guessing that numbers of users, cheapness, and convenience are the central factors in encouraging people to see flying as a normal everyday activity. (OK, there are arguments to be had about the rightness of that too, but not here.)

*Sniff* You could have at least given me a sodding like then *sniff*

I know a few people who are scared of flying (scarily enough, one of them works for aeroengine maker Rolls Royce!). But the thing about flying is that everyone does it, at one time or another. It's not the preserve of those sporty ultrafit people, or eccentrics, or tree-huggers or other strange creatures - which is the all too common portrayal of cyclists in this country. There isn't any sort of culture of utility cycling that you tend to find in Europe. Even commuting to work seems to be type cast as some extreme event all too often - just look at the "Silly Commuter Racing" thread over on Bike Radar for instance. If you want cycling to be regarded as an everyday activity, we're going to need to address peoples' fears. Telling people that they need to wear a helmet for their safety doesn't do that - it sends exactly the opposite message.

 

[srw]

@McWobble - the culture of utility cycling is well on its way in London, particularly amongst the cash-strapped young. Ordinary people going on their ordinary commutes to ordinary jobs. Of the four or five (I've lost count) regular cyclists in my office, I'm the only one who does it at the weekend. On the other hand, I'm also the only one who wears a suit not lycra and doesn't wear a helmet for the trip.

How you take that beyond London and get that four or five up to 9 or 10 I don't know - I suspect you just sit and wait for a few years.

 

[ufkacbln]

You can only lead by example and encourage those who do

I had a visit a couple of weeks ago from a complete stranger who had just joined the TRust and asked their manager about Cycle To Work and whether it was possible to cycle from Fareham

She was referred to "the bloke in x-ray with the funny bikes" for advice.

Within a week of getting the bike

Ridden into work and home twice as a "buddy" taking the alternative routes
Shown her the bike shops and "emergency stops" where you can change a puncture in the dry or wait for collection in case of a failure


She now rides regularly, and we often pass in the bike sheds

 

[Wobblers]

@McWobble - the culture of utility cycling is well on its way in London, particularly amongst the cash-strapped young. Ordinary people going on their ordinary commutes to ordinary jobs. Of the four or five (I've lost count) regular cyclists in my office, I'm the only one who does it at the weekend. On the other hand, I'm also the only one who wears a suit not lycra and doesn't wear a helmet for the trip.

How you take that beyond London and get that four or five up to 9 or 10 I don't know - I suspect you just sit and wait for a few years.

There is certainly a culture of commuting by bike in London. One that is conspicuous by its absence in Birmingham, or Glasgow. Though I have noticed an increase in the number of cyclists I've seen in both cities over the past few years. But the real test is the "supermarket test": how many bikes do you see parked outside the supermarket? It's a rare day that I see more another besides my own in Glasgow or Brum. Perhaps someone could comment on what it's like in London? We'll have a culture of utility cycling when there's as many bikes in the supermarket car park as cars...

 

[Wobblers]

Chickens and Eggs innit. Supermarkets are generally built on out of town retail parks, off busy main roads and dual carriageways. Let us not forget that in the late 80's Tescos were one of the countries biggest road builders.

Perhaps the bike racks in a town centre would be a better indicator? But there again, the opposite could be argued, in that you have to cycle as there's no where to park.

Until there is a fair balance in policy, I don't think these bottom-up indicators mean too much.

And here I was, thinking that "More bikes at supermarkets!" was a totally spiffing rallying cry. So cruelly dashed: how could you be so mean??

The major beneficiary of planning in this country has for a rather long time been cars rather than people. That the supermarkets have been able to subvert it to their own exclusive benefits is merely symptomatic of the problem. And this is the other frustrating thing about all this talk about helmets, or facilities: it diverts attention away the real problem, which is that our roads are far too crowded and the consequences are increasingly unpleasant. Cycling facilities won't get more people on bikes; a more convivial environment will. That means an end to pandering exclusively to the motoring lobby.

 

[Wobblers]

Anyway, how's my attempt at getting an interesting helmet thread going by not talking about helmets working?