Petition: 30 km/h (20 mp/h) urban speed limit

[Jimmy Doug]

It's about time. Another child was knocked down in our little market town the other day - yet another. I'm sick and tired of seeing cars bombing though our town centre at 50 km/h (or above) when there are pedestrians trying to negotiate the pathetic pavements barely wide enough for two, when children are trying to cross the road and people's pets are being squashed. I'm fed up of the noise, the pollution, the stress ... A pedestrian struck by a car has a 90% chance of survival; a pedestrian hit at 45 km/h has less than 50%. Isn't it time we did something about it? The petition is here.

 

[GrasB]

Not signing. I've experienced several villages where the setting up of a 20 mph limit has made the village more unpleasant & harder for the villagers to get about their business. I don't want a default, I want the speed limit to be considered properly & not some knee-jerk reaction to people whining about people who are speeding, etc.

 

[Peter Armstrong]

How about bollards that pop up if you do over 40mph, then smash!!

 

[Jimmy Doug]

Not signing. I've experienced several villages where the setting up of a 20 mph limit has made the village more unpleasant & harder for the villagers to get about their business. I don't want a default, I want the speed limit to be considered properly & not some knee-jerk reaction to people whining about people who are speeding, etc.

Since when do people need to drive at 30 mph (or about) in a village? Perhaps it adds 10 seconds to the time to drop the kids off at school. Wouldn't it be better if the kids could actually walk to school in safety instead?

 

[mickle]

[quote="GrasB, post: 2282368, member: 7408".... I've experienced several villages where the setting up of a 20 mph limit has made the village more unpleasant & harder for the villagers to get about their business..... [/quote]

Which villages? And how exactly was it 'more unpleasant harder for them to go about their business'? Unless you mean more unpleasant and harder for drivers?

 

[GrasB]

How about bollards that pop up if you do over 40mph, then smash!!

Now that's something I could go for

Seriously, 20mph limits are good in some places but also can cause problems in others. As I said before I don't want a default, that's not just a 20 mph limit but also a 30 mph limit etc. I can think of 2 places I'd put a 10mph limit!

 

[GrasB]

[quote="GrasB, post: 2282368, member: 7408".... I've experienced several villages where the setting up of a 20 mph limit has made the village more unpleasant & harder for the villagers to get about their business.....

Which villages? And how exactly was it 'more unpleasant harder for them to go about their business'? Unless you mean more unpleasant and harder for drivers?[/quote]
Because it becomes a nightmare to cross the road. cars nose to tail or when there's space cars bowling along at much higher than speed limit speed....

 

[GrasB]

Since when do people need to drive at 30 mph (or about) in a village? Perhaps it adds 10 seconds to the time to drop the kids off at school. Wouldn't it be better if the kids could actually walk to school in safety instead?

You've got to factor in not just the speed but the way motorists respond to that speed limit. It's part of the deal that you have to deal with the psychological effects of a 20 mph limit. If the limits start raising very negative feelings in the motoring public it reflects on their driving & makes navigating the streets by foot awful.

 

[Linford]

Would agree to a degree with GrasB on the lower speed limits

Arbitrary lower limits will cause more problems for vehicles entering main roads. Nose to tail doing 20mph in the rush hour makes it a nightmare to get out of side roads near me, and people have to wait for a pedestrian crossing to stop the trafficbefore they can join it.

Time and a place for all things. What was the circumstance of the child being hit ?

 

[Jimmy Doug]

Time and a place for all things. What was the circumstance of the child being hit ?

Three incidents in the last couple of months, in a town of less than 5000 people, one involving an adult, two a child. If you can understand French, here is the first. The bloke was crossing the road on a pedestrian crossing and was hit by a car - he was very badly injured. The second incident involved a 13 year-old child. No details are given, but the road is near my house and I can just picture what happened - child tried to cross at the pedestrian crossing and was hit by a car travelling too fast. The third was reported last week - I have no details on this. There have been several others during the past few years.

 

[Linford]

Three incidents in the last couple of months, in a town of less than 5000 people, one involving an adult, two a child. If you can understand French, here is the first. The bloke was crossing the road on a pedestrian crossing and was hit by a car - he was very badly injured. The second incident involved a 13 year-old child. No details are given, but the road is near my house and I can just picture what happened - child tried to cross at the pedestrian crossing and was hit by a car travelling too fast. The third was reported last week - I have no details on this. There have been several others during the past few years.

It isn't the speed which is the issue in any of what you have quoted, but the poor standard of observation, and being prepared to stop within the distance they can see to be safe....they obviously didn't, and lower speed limits will just get ignored. You need to improve driving standards, not just use a cosh to try and beat people into submission. Half of the drivers on the roads have no idea what the posted limits are on my commute.

 

[Jimmy Doug]

It isn't the speed which is the issue in any of what you have quoted, but the poor standard of observation, and being prepared to stop within the distance they can see to be safe....they obviously didn't, and lower speed limits will just get ignored. You need to improve driving standards, not just use a cosh to try and beat people into submission. Half of the drivers on the roads have no idea what the posted limits are on my commute.

I agree with some of this but not all. As I said in the OP : 30 km/h - 90% chance of survival in case of being run over; 45 km/h, less than 50 %. The simple fact is, the faster a car is going, the more chance a pedestrian will get killed in case of an accident; and the faster the car is travelling, the more chance there is of an accident. As for the two incidents, there is nothing that points to how fast the cars were travelling at - but as I cross both roads several times a day, I suspect it is: people rarely slow down to 30 in this part of the world, even (in the very rare cases) when it is the marked maximum. This brings me to my point of agreement with you: it's one thing having a speed limit, it's another making people respect that speed limit and getting them to adapt their driving to circumstance. Lowering the speed limit is but a start; it will also be necessary to enforce these limits and educate the average Picard into adapting his of her speed according to conditions.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Signé.

 

[Linford]

I agree with some of this but not all. As I said in the OP : 30 km/h - 90% chance of survival in case of being run over; 45 km/h, less than 50 %. The simple fact is, the faster a car is going, the more chance a pedestrian will get killed in case of an accident; and the faster the car is travelling, the more chance there is of an accident. As for the two incidents, there is nothing that points to how fast the cars were travelling at - but as I cross both roads several times a day, I suspect it is: people rarely slow down to 30 in this part of the world, even (in the very rare cases) when it is the marked maximum. This brings me to my point of agreement with you: it's one thing having a speed limit, it's another making people respect that speed limit and getting them to adapt their driving to circumstance. Lowering the speed limit is but a start; it will also be necessary to enforce these limits and educate the average Picard into adapting his of her speed according to conditions.

The fly in the oiuntment is that by your reckoning, of the survival rates (which drop even more at 40mph), these people died. Now I would suggest that the vehicles hitting them were indeed doing more than 50kmh, and ignoring the existing limits. If people better observe the existing limits, and even more pertinently, observe what is going on around them, then the risks drop for all.

I've done some advanced training, and the thing which gets drummed in the most is observation of urban limits followed by better observation and road positioning to extend the lines of sight to give more time to react.

 

[DRHysted]

Sorry but I don't want a blanket speed limit, I want proper assessment of roads. The road outside my house is 30mph and I am happy with that, I can't remember anyone being hit let alone killed here (I reserve the right to be wrong). As a child I was taught how to cross roads safely, and to date the only time I've been hit by a car was when he electronic brake released on my sisters car when being jump started.