Petition for law change - Ebike Assist Limit

[jowwy]

260% extra power, flip me, no wonder, 100% more puts the rider in elite level over a club rider...

Not really......what if your only putting in 100watts, boost puts that at 360watts, but if that puts you over the 15.6mph limit, you get zero extra watts. Boost isn’t required on flat or downhill, so boost is used for uphill to get you up steeper climbs, that you may not be able to get up under normal steam

 

[fossyant]

Put that power in someone who isn't experienced - OK, not on the flat, but uphill, off road, with others about. That's why many MTB'ers don't like e-bikers - at least many could say I'm coming through, erm, no. It's called 'respecting everyone' but these bikes do give someone quick access to being very fast, without learning how to interact with other users.

I can fly along on the canal at over 15 mph of my FS, but if I come near any persons, I'll slow to a crawl, mainly because it's how I've learnt we share spaces. Get your usual 'car commuter' on a canal path, without a bit of education, on one of these e-bikes...hmmm, recipe for disaster.

There might be a need for 'share the space' type education for faster e-bikes.

 

[fossyant]

Not really......what if your only putting in 100watts, boost puts that at 360watts, but if that puts you over the 15.6mph limit, you get zero extra watts. Boost isn’t required on flat or downhill, so boost is used for uphill to get you up steeper climbs, that you may not be able to get up under normal steam

No, so If I'm climbing at 350w up a nasty steep hill on my FS MTB at 5mph breathing out my botty, you get 260% more, so fly past at maybe 12 mph or less that's where issues start if the rider is inexperienced ?

 

[jowwy]

No, so If I'm climbing at 350w up a nasty steep hill on my FS MTB at 5mph breathing out my botty, you get 260% more, so fly past at maybe 12 mph or less that's where issues start if the rider is inexperienced ?

But what if the rider isn’t inexperienced??? Why are we concentrating on inexperienced riders......my mate ex semi pro bike rider, now rides with me on his emtb and with me on mine, we are both experienced riders, are curtious to other road, path, mup riders and can handle a bike.......not all ebike riders are inexperienced starter riders

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Of course we have to thank EU Harmonisation (28-01-2016) for our current e-bike legislation. After Brexit (if it ever happens)
I guess people opposed to the current assist level can see a ray of hope ?

UK ebike law - Updated 28-01-2016
The UK electric bike industry and the Department for Transport have long recognised these 1983 UK regulations to be antiquated. In practice, UK police enforce the standards set by the EU’s EN15194. The EN15194 regulations stipulate that e-bikes may:


Be fitted with a motor with a power of no more than 250w
Provide a maximum assisted speed (i.e. the speed at which motor assistance is automatically cut off) of no more than 25 kmph (roughly 15.5 mph)
Not be fitted with a full speed throttle that can work ‘independently’ (that is without the pedals ‘moving forward’). Start Up Assist throttles (those that assist up to 6 km/h) are allowed
Be ridden without any minimum age limit

The RTA 1988 says they can't be ridden by anyone under 14. Are you saying police are ignoring that in favour of
EN15194?

 

[jowwy]

The RTA 1988 says they can't be ridden by anyone under 14. Are you saying police are ignoring that in favour of
EN15194?

I believe e bikes can’t be ridden by under 14s in the current legislation too........

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Do these same people believe that a fit cyclist who rides a normal bike at 25mph is too fast and dangerous?

Yes if said cyclist rides at that speed on shared/segregated paths.
With Ebikes getting more affordable, there is a whole new demographic that would consider riding a bike.
Most of those that will consider an Ebike, imo, will naturally gravitate towards cycling facilities because a beginner cyclist is terrified of traffic.
A newbie with the power to go fast, on a shared path is a recipe for disaster imo.
Of course there are experience cyclists getting into Ebiking for health reasons or whatever, but, imo, they will be in the minority once Ebikes really become popular.

 

[fossyant]

But what if the rider isn’t inexperienced??? Why are we concentrating on inexperienced riders......my mate ex semi pro bike rider, now rides with me on his emtb and with me on mine, we are both experienced riders, are curtious to other road, path, mup riders and can handle a bike.......not all ebike riders are inexperienced starter riders

That's fine. But, we can all go buy the worlds best bike, but we have to pedal it. If you can't, but get this extra power, it's trouble - just like cars - so Insurance....

I'm not negative to e-bikes, they are a fab idea, but if that speed is available to anyone, like cars, insurance needed. A heavy e-bike landing on you, might get insurance claims for PI. I'm a fully insured cyclist , and it's been used both for me, and against me, so it's needed (all low speed actually - less than 15 mph).

I'm still not going to get one, they look great, but I still like suffering and swearing (broken spine 3 years ago). A recent ride involved 6 hours on the MTB a few weeks ago, lots of pushing (e-MTB would have also) and carrying down un-rideable stuff.. got home. I won't be doing the loop again soon as it's massively exposed (needs a good day that I got) and it's not very rideable - an e-mtb would be a liability at the weight.

 

[fossyant]

Pat....your making the assumption that all e bike riders are uncouth, uncourteous human beings and that’s wrong.

And as others have already stated newbies don’t have the ability to ride at those speeds, cause you still have to be able to pedal the bike up to those speeds, it doesn’t automatically happen at the touch of a button

Your also looking forward to future ebike use and predicting the worse, which again is wrong

It's like the go fast pedal in a car. Sorry ! You'll find folk using it. I brake and kill my speed around people on my bike, because I have had a lifetime of riding bikes. The e-bike opens it up, so we do need to educate folk to sharing space - that's important.

 

[winjim]

Yes....e bikes work by upping the power I rider can input their self by a % increase....my ebike works as fellows

Eco = 50% extra
Tour = 100% extra
Sport = 180% extra
Turbo = 260% extra....

Up to the cut off speed of 15.6mph, above that speed there is no input from the motor and only leg power.

That makes more sense with the different modes.

 

[jowwy]

That's fine. But, we can all go buy the worlds best bike, but we have to pedal it. If you can't, but get this extra power, it's trouble - just like cars - so Insurance....

I'm not negative to e-bikes, they are a fab idea, but if that speed is available to anyone, like cars, insurance needed. A heavy e-bike landing on you, might get insurance claims for PI. I'm a fully insured cyclist , and it's been used both for me, and against me, so it's needed (all low speed actually - less than 15 mph).

I'm still not going to get one, they look great, but I still like suffering and swearing (broken spine 3 years ago). A recent ride involved 6 hours on the MTB a few weeks ago, lots of pushing (e-MTB would have also) and carrying down un-rideable stuff.. got home. I won't be doing the loop again soon as it's massively exposed (needs a good day that I got) and it's not very rideable - an e-mtb would be a liability at the weight.

I also have insurance and maybe other emtb riders will have too.....again we making assumptions that these things don’t already happen

 

[fossyant]

I also have insurance and maybe other emtb riders will have too.....again we making assumptions that these things don’t already happen

Many many cyclists don't though. Hence my worry... open up more speed ..

 

[jowwy]

That makes more sense with the different modes.

I agree.....but that’s where I would start the limitations, reduce the assist available but remove the cut off speed. Therefore if you have the ability to ride at higher speeds by pedalling you still can and if you can’t then the power assist available is less which keeps you at lower speeds

Hope that makes sense

 

[winjim]

I agree.....but that’s where I would start the limitations, reduce the assist available but remove the cut off speed. Therefore if you have the ability to ride at higher speeds by pedalling you still can and if you can’t then the power assist available is less which keeps you at lower speeds

Hope that makes sense

But wouldn't that mean that weaker riders, the ones who need the assist the most, get the least? Having speed (whatever speed we decide that should be) rather than assist as the cutoff at least levels the playing field a bit. If you reduced the assist then a weak rider might not even make it up to 15mph at all, which kind of defeats the point of having an ebike.

 

[fossyant]

Having seen an e-bike 'dutchie' accelerate, they are quick. I'd have been putting in some power on my fixie (I was in the car and it shot off)...

I don't mind, but I think the limit might be needed on 'road bikes' or 'fast hybrids' but it would need to be bike type specific...