Planning our first small Tour ( North shields to Moray )
- Thread starter chrismisterx
- Start date
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Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Rottenburg am Neckar
PS to the above: The bikes are in good condition with brakes and gears set properly, and the parts are good, if not high-end. That's the other important factor: a 20 year old steel bike with salvaged mudguards and rack but kept in good order is as easy to ride as a new one.
vt2
Guru
- Location
- Basingstoke
The Hoprider 900 gets a good review on road.cc rating it 7/10 for performance and 10/10 for value. Its main advantage is it comes fully equipped for touring with mudguards, rack, lights, lock and a good gear range. Yes it is heavy but so will a bare comparable bike be after you add all that kit you need [OK you don't actually need the hub dynamo or kickstand] I have toured on two flat bar tourers, one converted from a mtb and the other a road bike. The mtb one probably weighs about 15kg with the rack, mudguards, etc and it was completely fine. The road bike based one is a lot lighter without the kit, but after adding heavier touring wheels, mudguards, rack, bar bag, etc it is about 12kg.
If you are following the EV12 route to say Elgin from North Shields it is more like 395 miles with 19000 ft of ascent. Assuming you will be touring lightish and staying in hotels or B&B's rather than camping, that's a lot to do in 3/4 days, certainly much more than I have done in the past. If you are starting from scratch then unless you are very fit, I suggest aiming for 40-50 miles per day on tour. You can use the train over the difficult or boring bits.
If you Google for training plans they generally suggest about a 12 week training period with increasing mileage up to 100-150% of you daily tour mileage - although I think this is over the top. I lead a cycling group of retirees and some of them were starting from scratch up to a 5 day tour at 40-50 miles a day over 3 months, starting out riding twice a week, for say 20 miles, to three times a week for 30 miles with moderate hills and they coped fine with the tours.
So go for it.
If you are following the EV12 route to say Elgin from North Shields it is more like 395 miles with 19000 ft of ascent. Assuming you will be touring lightish and staying in hotels or B&B's rather than camping, that's a lot to do in 3/4 days, certainly much more than I have done in the past. If you are starting from scratch then unless you are very fit, I suggest aiming for 40-50 miles per day on tour. You can use the train over the difficult or boring bits.
If you Google for training plans they generally suggest about a 12 week training period with increasing mileage up to 100-150% of you daily tour mileage - although I think this is over the top. I lead a cycling group of retirees and some of them were starting from scratch up to a 5 day tour at 40-50 miles a day over 3 months, starting out riding twice a week, for say 20 miles, to three times a week for 30 miles with moderate hills and they coped fine with the tours.
So go for it.
Gravity Aided
Legendary Member
- Location
- Land of Lincoln
What do you have presently? That's the best place to start. What do you like or dislike about it? I've used old converted city bikes, 10 speed racers, what have you. Take a look at this,https://www.cyclingabout.com/build-a-round-the-world-touring-bike-on-a-budget/
it has some nice guidelines. Now admittedly, since foot problems and my wife's health have rather shortened my touring to day trips, I'm not up on the latest and greatest, but I can also advise you that that's how you cross the greatest of distances, day by day. Don't force the distance, let the world turn under you. I'm currently the owner of a 26" touring bike that works out well, though the frame may be a bit past it. I also have a randonee style Trek from the mid-80's, fitted out for front bags only, and a couple of bikes that defy description. All could tour. Some have strengths the others do not, and weaknesses as well. Buy the best bike you can afford, and improve as you go. Dawes Galaxy seems, in your country, to be the gateway drug to bicycle touring, but others may advise you otherwise. Light weight does not a tourer make. You need durability to carry extra weight and deals with the stresses that extra weight puts on the bicycle as it goes down the road.
Gravity Aided
Legendary Member
- Location
- Land of Lincoln
Read up, all you can. Get some topo maps of the area you'l be cycling through. See what you'll be up against. P.S.- In a pawn shop, not four miles from my house, there is an old Hercules three-speed that was once used as a touring bike. You can tour on about anything. But gearing and good wheelsets may make your tour more amenable.
OP
OP
chrismisterx
Senior Member
- Location
- North Shields
The bike I have is an old Raleigh Ascender, from 1993 I think, steel frame. it had until 3 weeks ago all the parts from the day it left the factory, it cost me £25 for both our bikes, my wifes is a dawes street lite I think? again from around the early 1990's, they had sit in a guys garage for years and offered them to us for £12.50 a bike just cant grumble really.
On my bike the brakes where shot ( had to use my feet ) gears didnt work well ( only the middle gear worked ) and the tyres had holes in, but i used it for a couple of weeks until i was sure I wanted to go cycling, so I took it to my local bike shop and paid £70 for new brakes, new tyres, fixed the missing bolts, fixed the gears etc, so now it rides like a dream compared to before. What a difference having 15 gears compared to 5 makes hehe.
I thought fixing up the old bike would end up costing more than just buying a new one, so did the bare minimum to make the bike road worthy, I will keep this bike even if I get a new one anyway.
Gravity Aided
Legendary Member
- Location
- Land of Lincoln
Both of those bicycles sound just fine. I googled images of them, and they appear to be all right for what you want to do. Just get those fixed up, and get some racks and panniers, and try some cycling together. I say together, because you also want to see how you both adapt and enjoy cycle touring. Here's a Raleigh Technium (aluminum main triangle, Cr-Mo fork and stays) built up as a tourer. I made this myself out of an old city bike. I have a new project in this vein in the offing, if the deals can be made. Have you looked at your local cycling co-op? You could get a good used bike there, and learn about how to repair it yourself.
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Get some bikes. Non suspension hybrid bike are fine for touring and generally goid value. Get the correct size, low gears, no more weight than necessary and full accessories, mudguards, rear rack lights.
Get plenty of saddle time. Use them for commuting, shopping, local transportation.
Start your touring with weekend day rides, then weekend tours so you have an idea of yiur capabilities
700 miles in 8 days is quite hard riding. You can bugout if you have to using trains.
My guidelines for longer distance tours is about 50-60 miles / day and average traveling speed of 10mph over the whole day
Get plenty of saddle time. Use them for commuting, shopping, local transportation.
Start your touring with weekend day rides, then weekend tours so you have an idea of yiur capabilities
700 miles in 8 days is quite hard riding. You can bugout if you have to using trains.
My guidelines for longer distance tours is about 50-60 miles / day and average traveling speed of 10mph over the whole day
uphillstruggler
Guru
- Location
- Half way there
if you are looking for new at your budget have a look at these if you have a decathlon near you. all the rack mounts you need and very well specified at this price point. the only thing that may need looking at would be the gearing as it may be a little high.
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/rc-500-disc-road-bike-turquoise-sora-id_8554411.html
I would say that if you going to ride distance - it would be an idea to do a maintenance course if you aren't mechanically minded.
Llots of good advice throughout this thread, especially your intended distances. they could be torture if your not used to being in the saddle day after day etc.
all the best for the tour
HobbesOnTour
Guru
- Location
- España
Hi Chris,
Your enthusiasm is very clear!
Your cycling on a broken down bike with no brakes and tyres that were shot to pieces displayed that..... as well as a certain recklessness
You start off saying you're looking for touring bikes/routes/bike packing advice. I don't think you're looking for that at all, at the moment.
I think the advice you need is to slow down!
** The OP also has the same thread running on another forum, so my opinions are offered on the basis of his input on both threads**
Right now, you don't need a bike - you already have one!
You're loving cycling the bike...., and that's great.
You have big plans to make touring a part of your life - that's fantastic and I don't think you will be disappointed. Touring is fantastic!
But......
By your own admission, you know very little about bikes and cycling. I'm not trying to imply that its like rocket science, because it's not, but the more you know the better decisions you can make.
You have a limited budget.
You want to camp.... and start practising after Christmas. In January? February? Winter camping is a whole other kettle of fish!
You want to cycle 100 miles per day, loaded for 4 days in a row. That's optimistic!
Your wife, your cycling partner is not "performing" the way you'd like.
Let;s start with the last one first.
Touring with someone else can be a very challenging experience. Different speeds, stamina levels, toilet breaks, hunger tolerance etc mean that 2 people touring together have to have a good touring relationship otherwise problems will arise. It seems that yourself and your wife are diverging already.
Seriously, it's November. I'm with your wife in not being too interested in going out at this time of the year.
(On that point, and this is probably just me, but the idea of "training" for a vacation fills me with horror! "Practising"is more optimistic).
Bike/cycling knowledge
Since you have only just started out cycling, it's fair to say that you are at the trunk of the cycling tree. There are a lot of branches on that tree, from leisure to commuting to touring, to off-road, to mountainbiking, to tandems, to folding to recumbents....... the list is almost endless. Right now, you're focusing on the touring branch (and looking for a bike to match) without really seeing the other branches, never mind exploring them. It's highly probable that you will also discover other things in cycling that you want to explore and buying a bike so early (when there is no need to do so) may well limit your choices/options in future. Sitting tight on your current bike will give you a chance to explore more options as your experience expands.
Budget
Cycling can be expensive. But it doesn't have to be. For me, the important thing about being on a budget is not to waste money. One of the easiest ways to waste money is to rush in and buy in haste (repenting at leisure). A bike that is cheap and ready out of the box (a quote from you somewhere) are not the best reasons to buy a particular bike.
Bike touring, is ironically, not so much about the bike! You need gear! Tent, sleeping bag, mat, cooking gear? raingear, clothing, maps/gps, lights, as well as the costs - food, drinks, accommodation etc. Planning a good route helps enormously in the enjoyment level. Back-up plans for the inevitable variations reduce stress.
What gear do you have? What do you need to get?
You're reading blogs of world tourers - make a list of the gear they have that you think you need. Cost it. Then look at your budget again.
Camping
Camping is great fun! I love it. I started camping on the bike out of necessity when my trips became longer and I did not have the money for B&Bs or hotels. Now, it's one of my favourite things.
I also do winter camping. It's a very different experience - cold, wet, no chance to get dry. Short days. Less places to stay. If you're planning on practising in January or February I'd reckon there's a strong chance that it will be a disaster! (Of course, maybe you're an experienced camper and this doesn't apply).
100 miles per day.
I can cycle 100 miles on a loaded bike. I choose not to do it, unless absolutely essential. It's just no fun. Rush, rush, rush. No time to stop and smell the roses. And if the weather or terrain is against you, downright horrible.
Think about it. Average 10 mph. that's 10 hours constant cycling. No breaks. Start at 9 am. Cycle until 7 pm. Stop for lunch? Then cycle until 8 pm. Pitch a tent? Cook dinner? And get up and do it again tomorrow?
To conclude, I think the most important thing for you is to slow down and bring your wife along for the ride.
Tell her to wear what she's comfortable in on the bike. You don't need "cycling clothes". I tour in a pair of Decathlon shorts and a t-shirt. No padded shorts, bibs etc. The only bike clothing I own is a Gore jacket and trousers I use for winter commuting. Everything else is "normal clothing". I tried some lycra... once. I rode very fast because I was sure the fashion police were on my tail for severe crimes against public decency! Plus, I found the padded shorts to be yucky on tour.
Stick to your tour plan, but reassess closer to the time and plan on using a train(s).
There's no reason you can't use your existing bikes for that trip and use it as a learning experience for cycling the whole coastline.
And finally.......(Honestly! )
Just on the bike choices......have you considered a tandem? Not for everybody - expensive and difficult to store and transport but can be great for couples.
Or folding bikes? Yes, you can tour on them. Easy to bring with you anywhere. The world really does become your oyster with a folding bike!
Best of luck in your adventures! Just remember to breathe!
Your enthusiasm is very clear!
Your cycling on a broken down bike with no brakes and tyres that were shot to pieces displayed that..... as well as a certain recklessness
You start off saying you're looking for touring bikes/routes/bike packing advice. I don't think you're looking for that at all, at the moment.
I think the advice you need is to slow down!
** The OP also has the same thread running on another forum, so my opinions are offered on the basis of his input on both threads**
Right now, you don't need a bike - you already have one!
You're loving cycling the bike...., and that's great.
You have big plans to make touring a part of your life - that's fantastic and I don't think you will be disappointed. Touring is fantastic!
But......
By your own admission, you know very little about bikes and cycling. I'm not trying to imply that its like rocket science, because it's not, but the more you know the better decisions you can make.
You have a limited budget.
You want to camp.... and start practising after Christmas. In January? February? Winter camping is a whole other kettle of fish!
You want to cycle 100 miles per day, loaded for 4 days in a row. That's optimistic!
Your wife, your cycling partner is not "performing" the way you'd like.
Let;s start with the last one first.
Touring with someone else can be a very challenging experience. Different speeds, stamina levels, toilet breaks, hunger tolerance etc mean that 2 people touring together have to have a good touring relationship otherwise problems will arise. It seems that yourself and your wife are diverging already.
Seriously, it's November. I'm with your wife in not being too interested in going out at this time of the year.
(On that point, and this is probably just me, but the idea of "training" for a vacation fills me with horror! "Practising"
is more optimistic).Bike/cycling knowledge
Since you have only just started out cycling, it's fair to say that you are at the trunk of the cycling tree. There are a lot of branches on that tree, from leisure to commuting to touring, to off-road, to mountainbiking, to tandems, to folding to recumbents....... the list is almost endless. Right now, you're focusing on the touring branch (and looking for a bike to match) without really seeing the other branches, never mind exploring them. It's highly probable that you will also discover other things in cycling that you want to explore and buying a bike so early (when there is no need to do so) may well limit your choices/options in future. Sitting tight on your current bike will give you a chance to explore more options as your experience expands.
Budget
Cycling can be expensive. But it doesn't have to be. For me, the important thing about being on a budget is not to waste money. One of the easiest ways to waste money is to rush in and buy in haste (repenting at leisure). A bike that is cheap and ready out of the box (a quote from you somewhere) are not the best reasons to buy a particular bike.
Bike touring, is ironically, not so much about the bike! You need gear! Tent, sleeping bag, mat, cooking gear? raingear, clothing, maps/gps, lights, as well as the costs - food, drinks, accommodation etc. Planning a good route helps enormously in the enjoyment level. Back-up plans for the inevitable variations reduce stress.
What gear do you have? What do you need to get?
You're reading blogs of world tourers - make a list of the gear they have that you think you need. Cost it. Then look at your budget again.
Camping
Camping is great fun! I love it. I started camping on the bike out of necessity when my trips became longer and I did not have the money for B&Bs or hotels. Now, it's one of my favourite things.
I also do winter camping. It's a very different experience - cold, wet, no chance to get dry. Short days. Less places to stay. If you're planning on practising in January or February I'd reckon there's a strong chance that it will be a disaster! (Of course, maybe you're an experienced camper and this doesn't apply).
100 miles per day.
I can cycle 100 miles on a loaded bike. I choose not to do it, unless absolutely essential. It's just no fun. Rush, rush, rush. No time to stop and smell the roses. And if the weather or terrain is against you, downright horrible.
Think about it. Average 10 mph. that's 10 hours constant cycling. No breaks. Start at 9 am. Cycle until 7 pm. Stop for lunch? Then cycle until 8 pm. Pitch a tent? Cook dinner? And get up and do it again tomorrow?
To conclude, I think the most important thing for you is to slow down and bring your wife along for the ride.
Tell her to wear what she's comfortable in on the bike. You don't need "cycling clothes". I tour in a pair of Decathlon shorts and a t-shirt. No padded shorts, bibs etc. The only bike clothing I own is a Gore jacket and trousers I use for winter commuting. Everything else is "normal clothing". I tried some lycra... once. I rode very fast because I was sure the fashion police were on my tail for severe crimes against public decency! Plus, I found the padded shorts to be yucky on tour.
Stick to your tour plan, but reassess closer to the time and plan on using a train(s).
There's no reason you can't use your existing bikes for that trip and use it as a learning experience for cycling the whole coastline.
And finally.......(Honestly!
)Just on the bike choices......have you considered a tandem? Not for everybody - expensive and difficult to store and transport but can be great for couples.
Or folding bikes? Yes, you can tour on them. Easy to bring with you anywhere. The world really does become your oyster with a folding bike!
Best of luck in your adventures! Just remember to breathe!
Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Rottenburg am Neckar
@HobbesOnTour: Excellent post, and a load of encouraging & useful information: I'll be stealing a fair few of those thoughts when I next plan a tour.
Also good to know I'm not the only one who doesn't like/wear Lycra
Also good to know I'm not the only one who doesn't like/wear Lycra
OP
OP
chrismisterx
Senior Member
- Location
- North Shields
Your enthusiasm is very clear!
Thats a nice way to put it
I have this awful habit once I get my mind on something I tend to jump in both feet first, I tend to get obsessed with things, trying to get things just right.
you hit the nail on the head with many points and I thank you for your fantastic post and insight.
Its quite funny but my wife is the one who thinks we can do the trip no problem as long as we do some training, she is quite relaxed about the trip its the day to day riding atm that she is having a problem with
Anyway...... I will be 100% honest I keep going between the draw of a shinny new bike and fixing this one up, even with all its faults its really grown on me, i think because its my first real bike as an adult that I have used and the fact it was a bit battered and looked worse for wear when I got it, ( been in a mechanics garage for years ) it will always have a special place in my heart ( sad but true ).
I also liked the idea of as i get better at cycling the bike could improve with me, new parts and bringing it back to what it was, but after a little googling it just seems it would cost more than a new bike and then the stressing and indecision really started
I also think if the trip was "just a tour" we would 100% go slower, but its also a visit and she wants as much time with her parents as possible while still cycling up there and back, we only have 12 days to play around with. After all the advice we have been given I have been gently pushing her towards the train idea, my thoughts are if we are training for the trip local, many of the first few miles and places we will have seen to death by 5 months time, so maybe we should get the train up to Edinburgh, which would cut out around 150-200 miles from the trip depending on route, would have to check mileage.
We could do a tour from home to Edinburgh anytime anyway as a long weekend( this was advise from another poster ) means we could drop the millage down to around 60 miles a day over 4 days approx.
The camping was more my idea, I think my wife would go for B&B in a heart beat, so we are going to cost up the prices and maybe leave the camping until we have our first tour done and dusted depending on costs etc. Less camping gear bought at the start bigger budget for bike repairs / new bikes.
My wife is getting a new bike via work, so she gets 0% interest and its taken direct from her wages, we are just waiting to find out how it works and what her budget would be, she seems to think could be as high as £1000. My bike would have to be paid with cold hard cash, so what ever I could save extra over what I already have would be my budget.
So what to do? Could my bike be made fit for purpose and at what sort of cost? ( remember even this morning I have changed my mind 10 times between new bike or not lol
)Some pros and cons I can see of keeping the old bike is :-
it doesn't look expensive, so less likely to get nicked.
I have already had the brakes and tires replaced.
quite fond of the bike and the thought of a British made bike over 25 years old been fixed up and brought back into use brings a little smile to my face, i mean its a part of history is it not.
would the cost to fix it up mean the money would have been better spent on a new bike.
would 15 gears be enough, i read its better to have 27 gears for getting up and around difficult climbs when touring.
So my question is, what parts should I replace and what sort of cost are we looking at, all the parts until 3 weeks ago are from when the bike was built.
its only new parts are the tires, inner tubes and brake pads. So I would think quite a bit to replace, on the plus side maybe a good way to learn about bikes fixing it up I suppose.
I think the bike fits, its 18 / 19" frame approx I think will have to double check and I am 5'8, it seems to fit anyway lol.
these are the specs from another website which shows what the bike came with :-
Item Description
Frame 18" A transfer states 'ATT 23 fork blades, stays and main tubes'.
ATT is Raleigh All Terrain Tubing, no idea what 23 is. Probably high tensile of some sort.
Forks and headset etc. Raleigh Rigid, no suspension, no additional markings.
Brakes Weinmann cantilever. Rear dated on the casting April 1992, front July 1992 There is a small Weinmann logo on the calipers and hangers. No idea of model number so far, had enough trouble finding out they were Weinmann.
Brake levers I assume Weinmann, perhaps Raleigh, no markings but not stripped yet. Plastic/resin but seem sound. Brake action overall is not very positive.
Shifters Shifters Indexed thumb shifts.
Front Derailleur Shimano FD-TY15 GS Works well following new cable and adjustment.
Rear Dérailleur Shimano RD-TY15. Date code April 1990. Works well following new cable and adjustment.
Freewheel SHIMANO SIS MF-Z015 14T-17T-20T-24T-28T Date code January 1993
Chain 1/2" x 3/32"
Cranks Thun 170mm, cotterless Very little information on these.
Chainrings 48T-38T-28T Riveted, no idea of manufacturer but not stripped down yet. Thun or Raleigh?
Pedal Union No idea of model, plastic/resin type.
Hubs Steel, unknown make. There is a logo followed by W GERMANY stamped around the centre but I have not been able to identify a manufacturer.
Spokes 36 to front and rear Galvanised but no rust showing.
Rims ETRTO 559x19 DIN Made in Belgium Alesa Alloy 419-26x1.75 I guess made for Raleigh.
Saddle Raleigh badged Selle Royal, dated Sep 1992 No idea of model, padded vinyl type.
Weight 31.5 lbs
website link where info comes from http://www.ply.me.uk/bits_and_pieces/bike.html
thank you again for a fantastic post, sums so much up really well.
To me, it's obvious:
Train to Edinburgh or further then ride.
B&B to save weight and keep your wife happy and motivated.
Your wife gets a decent bike on the C2W scheme. That will even out the power imbalance.
Do your bike up and get yourself one when you have a better budget. And/or get a tandem. You can never have too many bikes.
Train to Edinburgh or further then ride.
B&B to save weight and keep your wife happy and motivated.
Your wife gets a decent bike on the C2W scheme. That will even out the power imbalance.
Do your bike up and get yourself one when you have a better budget. And/or get a tandem. You can never have too many bikes.
Right you sound a bit like me it's either all in or nothing 
can't fault you wanting to go for it and try touring/bike packing. It's on my list too.
I don't know enough about doing up older bikes to say if it's worth it and what it will cost. Other's on here do though and they are best placed to advise.
From what you say about the bike if it make you happy and you like riding it maybe it is the right bike for you ?
I remember you found a good LBS and your happy with it so maybe ask them about what they think about the other all worth of the bike and if it makes sense to spend on it in the way you want.
As others have said just slow down and enjoy the view. Maybe divert a bit of the energy and love into planning for your goal , what just do really need? How you going to get it? ect,ect . I'm currently going a few and it's 1/2 the fun
One thing to remember what ever bike you have a lot's down the engine so don't forget to plan and work on that too.
can't fault you wanting to go for it and try touring/bike packing. It's on my list too. I don't know enough about doing up older bikes to say if it's worth it and what it will cost. Other's on here do though and they are best placed to advise.
From what you say about the bike if it make you happy and you like riding it maybe it is the right bike for you ?
I remember you found a good LBS and your happy with it so maybe ask them about what they think about the other all worth of the bike and if it makes sense to spend on it in the way you want.
As others have said just slow down and enjoy the view. Maybe divert a bit of the energy and love into planning for your goal , what just do really need? How you going to get it? ect,ect . I'm currently going a few and it's 1/2 the fun
One thing to remember what ever bike you have a lot's down the engine so don't forget to plan and work on that too.
