Please don't wear helmets*!!

[ufkacbln]

Not sure I ever have, but not sure what that has to do with the original question?

Is it always the truck or car drivers fault?

Consistently research shows that in the majority of cases (usually circa 80%) this is the case

It changes with age, activity and road type, but the above is a common finding

 

[jonny jeez]

It perpetuates the myth that cyclists safety is in our own hands!

Truck and car drivers will kill you and blame you. They need to know it's their behaviour that kills, not ours.

Also,


*Please note that I neither condone nor condemn helmet wearing when cycling.

2 pages of debate now....well done

 

[Tin Pot]

2 pages of debate now....well done

I woke up this morning with no replies and thought I'd got away with it(!)

Pesky kids...

 

[mjr]

When did you last hear of a collision between two cyclists or two pedestrians that resulted in death?

I suppose we would have heard if http://www.roadjustice.org.uk/case-...test-new-cycling-safety-traffic-lights-061013 had resulted in death.

It's always the behaviour of car and truck drivers that kills?

Not always, but the overwhelming majority of cases.

Is that conducive to a civil approach to road sharing?

No, one category having a far greater ability to kill but no presumed liability in law is not conducive to a civil approach to road sharing.

 

[winjim]

*Please note that I neither condone nor condemn helmet wearing when cycling.

I do, but I'm not telling you which.

 

[doog]

Consistently research shows that in the majority of cases (usually circa 80%) this is the case

It changes with age, activity and road type, but the above is a common finding

Can you show us the evidence please? Your post would indicate that 80% of truck or car drivers involved in fatal road traffic collisions with cyclists are prosecuted and found guilty. Im intrigued more than anything as to where these statistics are collated, I would also cast doubt on that percentage. Happy to be proved wrong though.

 

[david k]

Can you show us the evidence please? Your post would indicate that 80% of truck or car drivers involved in fatal road traffic collisions with cyclists are prosecuted and found guilty. Im intrigued more than anything as to where these statistics are collated, I would also cast doubt on that percentage. Happy to be proved wrong though.

So the OP claimed it was100% (and had numerous likes) , the figure wasn't challenged but now it's 80%?

 

[doog]

So the OP claimed it was100% (and had numerous likes) , the figure wasn't challenged but now it's 80%?

To be fair some glibly toss facts and figures around like confetti and the masses follow .

Would be interested in his 'source' however (as long as it aint the back of a fag packet) . An 80% conviction rate in relation to all fatal road collisions involving vehicles and cyclists would be a great comfort to us all, unfortunately just like stats for people falling up stairs I feel its simply pie in the sky.

We'll wait and see what he comes up with

 

[david k]

To be fair some glibly toss facts and figures around like confetti and the masses follow .

Would be interested in his 'source' however (as long as it aint the back of a fag packet) . An 80% conviction rate in relation to all fatal road collisions involving vehicles and cyclists would be a great comfort to us all, unfortunately just like stats for people falling up stairs I feel its simply pie in the sky.

We'll wait and see what he comes up with

Yes let's wait for the source before we question it, wouldn't be fair to jump to conclusions

Many claim there are more head injuries caused when walking (maybe upstairs not sure?) as cycling, so if you wear a helmet cycling but not walking your a hypocrite (is the suggestion) This has been aimed at me and others on many occasions, good to know those who make this claim and challenge others consistently stand by their comments and don't ever wear one cycling as they don't wear one when walking. Imagine how ridiculous someone would look if after years it was found out they don't stand by what they say

 

[david k]

Can you show us the evidence please? Your post would indicate that 80% of truck or car drivers involved in fatal road traffic collisions with cyclists are prosecuted and found guilty. Im intrigued more than anything as to where these statistics are collated, I would also cast doubt on that percentage. Happy to be proved wrong though.

Sorry Sir but you seem to have forgotten to start your post with .........oh dear........, this will help you set up a very patronising tone

Also remember to use the word 'unequivocal' as often as possible for greater effect

 

[doog]

Please explain wher you get the claim that there is an 80% conviction rate as this is NOT what was claimed

Oh dear.....

You clearly said 80% of truck and car drivers were at fault. How can YOU prove they were at fault if the courts cant.
Where did your 80% come from?

Likewise I asked for your source..provide it please. I think we're done dealing with figures simply plucked from the air.

 

[ufkacbln]

Firstly lets clarify this.

My original post was

Consistently research shows that in the majority of cases (usually circa 80%) this is the case

It changes with age, activity and road type, but the above is a common finding

Not prosecutions or convictions, but at fault.

It is a TRL report based upon DfT evidence

1. With adult cyclists, police found the driver solely responsible in about 60%-75% of all cases, and riders solely at fault 17%-25% of the time.


2. The City of Westminster Council found that drivers were to blame for 68 per cent of collisions between cyclists and motor vehicles in the borough in the past 12 months. It found that cyclists were at fault for only 20 per cent. In the remaining 12 per cent of cases, no cause could be found or both parties were to blame

3. One from Australia: The motorist was judged at fault in the majority of events (87%), and 83.3% of drivers didn't realise the danger they had put the cyclist in – or at least didn't show any reaction. Riders who frequently looked over their shoulders to check for other traffic were the most successful at avoiding collisions.

4. One from Hawaii http://pubsindex.trb.org/view.aspx?...lists are at fault in only 16.5% of incidents.

 

[doog]

Firstly lets clarify this.

My original post was


Not prosecutions or convictions, but at fault.

It is a TRL report based upon DfT evidence

1. With adult cyclists, police found the driver solely responsible in about 60%-75% of all cases, and riders solely at fault 17%-25% of the time.


2. The City of Westminster Council found that drivers were to blame for 68 per cent of collisions between cyclists and motor vehicles in the borough in the past 12 months. It found that cyclists were at fault for only 20 per cent. In the remaining 12 per cent of cases, no cause could be found or both parties were to blame

3. One from Australia: The motorist was judged at fault in the majority of events (87%), and 83.3% of drivers didn't realise the danger they had put the cyclist in – or at least didn't show any reaction. Riders who frequently looked over their shoulders to check for other traffic were the most successful at avoiding collisions.

4. One from Hawaii http://pubsindex.trb.org/view.aspx?...lists are at fault in only 16.5% of incidents.

Firstly I refute your allegations, complete nonsense. (nice beam btw)

Back to your post .Criminal law deals with proving cases beyond reasonable doubt yet youve posted a load of random links including Australia and Hawaii. The subject was fatal accidents, you appear to have fudged the issue completely and secondly you cannot prove fault unless its been decided in a criminal or civil court . My presumption is that link 2 is civil (balance of probabilities) yet thats 68% , 3 and 4 arent worth my time and 1 states 60-75.

This isnt consistent as you state it is, in any way shape or form...far from it.

Dan B said When did you last hear of a collision between two cyclists or two pedestrians that resulted in death?

David K said is it always the truck or car drivers fault?

You said consistently research shows that in the majority of cases (usually circa 80%) this is the case

 

[ufkacbln]

I can only apologise that Universities, the Transport Research Laboratory and the Department for Transport have all failed to meet your standards for evidence.

 

[Dan B]

Firstly I refute your allegations

Firstly you should learn the difference between "refute" and "reject".

Secondly you should consider that you're being a lot more obvious and a lot less clever than you think you are