Discussion in 'Commuting' started by spindrift, 28 May 2008.
From paul's link:
Certainly not, I think it's a good idea that will improve things for motorcyclists
I agree with Zim. I've never had a problem with motorbikes sharing "my" bit of road.
Have you seen the evidence?
LCC has written to London Mayor Boris Johnson asking him not to make a snap decision to allow motorbikes to use bus lanes, a move that could endanger the lives of cyclists and pedestrians, and is calling on LCC supporters to do the same.
London Assembly Conservatives say that the ‘wheels are in motion’ and the Mayor will ‘rubber stamp’ the decision after technical requirements are met. LCC is advising the Mayor not to base any decisions on what Transport for London has described as unreliable evidence.
LCC’s chief executive Koy Thomson told the Mayor that ‘making a snap decision on this key issue based on evidence that is ‘not statistically significant’, or is based on ‘flawed methodology’, is an enormous risk and could adversely impact the safety of many pedestrians and cyclists.
‘This would be a decision taken not only against the advice of transport officials and without the input of cycling and pedestrian groups, but also in the face of a warning that this could ‘disbenefit’ cyclists and pedestrians.’
Managing Director for Surface Transport at Transport for London David Brown has stated: ‘The data used in the earlier report was not considered sufficiently reliable to inform a decision on such an important issue.’ Following a review of the data Mr Brown’s conclusion (April 2008) was that ‘there is no evidence to indicate that motorcyclists would see any significant safety benefits from being allowed to enter bus lanes but that there were potential disbenefits for both cyclists and pedestrians.’
Tom Bogdanowicz, LCC’s Campaigns Manager, said: “Providing new high speed channels for motorcycles along major roads will inevitably increase motorcycle use. More motorcycle traffic will spread to all streets in London and will bring with it an increase in casualties for vulnerable road users. We’re asking our supporters to urge the Mayor to consider the safety impact on all London streets for every road user before any decision on allowing high-speed vehicles into bus lanes is made.”
It is well established that motorcycles are involved in a greater proportion of collisions per kilometre with pedestrians and cyclists than are cars.
Sign our petition TODAY.
The differential in speed between PTWs and bicycles would represent a risk to cycle users if PTWS were allowed into areas such as cycle lanes designed for the protection of cyclists on otherwise dangerous areas of road.
The weight difference between cyclists and motorcycles would represent a further threat to cyclist safety if they were required to share space. This is particularly the case with the larger high powered motorcycles which make up the majority of market sales in the UK.
Although a detailed 'before and after' study was not carried out in Bristol, a subsequent survey of cyclists found that 31% of cyclists had experienced problems with PTWs in bus lanes, leading the City Council to conclude that "it appears that the experiment has had a measurable negative effect on cyclists".
On the basis of Department of Transport figures, a motorcycle is twice as likely per mile travelled to kill or seriously injure a cyclist as a car.
In terms of emissions of environmental pollutants, motorcycles represent a threat to the city environment and do not offer significant advantages over other modes, even at current rates of occupancy:
Emission rates for passenger transport (grammes/passenger km)3
C02 CO HCNOx SOxCar 165 12.9 1.5 1.4 0.08Bus 77 1.4 0.4 1.2 0.10Taxi 330 2.0 0.4 1.6 0.43Motorcycle 115 8.9 1.1 1.0 0.06
Separation of cyclists from the sources of such fumes in segregated facilities is an important measure making cycling a more attractive transport option. To allow PTWs into cycle facilities would remove that advantage.
The noise pollution created by a greater use of larger motorcycles would also represent a problem in urban areas.
C-PAG also anticipates a problem with enforcement of restrictions on PTWs use. Already there is a widespread problem of illegal PTWS use of bus lanes.
If PTWs are granted access to cycle lanes it may prove impossible to prevent their use of cycle lanes in shared-use areas, representing a threat to cyclists and pedestrians alike.
Bicycle and bus lanes are designed to maximise access to city centres and to encourage and protect 'benign' modes of transport. To allow their use by individual motor transport users would congest them, reducing their effectiveness, and attract a greater amount of motorcycle traffic into town centres. This runs counter to most policy on road safety and environmental objectives, including Local Agenda 21 and Planning Policy Guidance note 13.
The effect of allowing motorcycles into cycle facilities will be to discourage cycling. Fear of traffic is the baffler to cycling most commonly cited in research. To remove the protection from motor traffic which cycle facilities afford would act against efforts to meet the Department of Transport's policy objective of doubling cycle use by 2002 and quadrupling it by 2012.
In view of these factors, the Cyclists' Public Affairs Group, representing the UK's major cycle user organisations, urges that calls for motorcycle use of bicycle facilities or bus lanes be rejected.
1. DOT, Targeting the Future, 1996
2. DOT, Transport Statistics Report, 1995
3. Centre For Independent Transport Research in London, CILT Journal, September 1996
Yes, I have seen 'the evidence'. it bores me stiff, so i just go by my gut feeling, and have no problem with bikers in bus lanes
That stated emissions figure for PTWs is 3% off my car. That's appalling.
People who discount all research outside their narrow bubble of experience don't deserve a mandate.
Anyone been buzzed by kids on mopeds? They think it's funny to slice you up and pass too close. I don't want then anywhere near me.
All research is flawed Spinners, especially when done with small samples.....
As for being buzzed by kids, I don't think they respect the bus lane laws anyway, so nothing will change there.
Never happened to me. As a serious question, do you think that the sort of idiot who does that is going to be stopped from doing it by not opening up bus lanes for motorbikes?
Beaten to it by Zim.
Well, Londoners voted him in, so they have to live with the consequences.
Nope Im not
Concerns are mounting as motorcyclists are disproportionately hazardous to cyclists and pedestrians: according to CTC, PTWs are about 1.5 times as likely as cars to be involved in collisions which cause serious injury to cyclists, twice as likely to be involved in causing them serious injury and about three times as likely to be involved in killing them, per mile travelled.
Data already collected shows an increase in the number of casualties to motorcyclists and other road users as a result of the experiment. Transport for London should be planning to remove the concession to motorcyclists: they need to ensure that there is effective enforcement of bus lane restrictions.
Where do you get all your cut and pastes from?
Concerns are mounting as motorcyclists are disproportionately
hazardous to cyclists and pedestrians: according to CTC, PTWs are
about 1.5 times as likely as cars to be involved in collisions which
cause serious injury to cyclists, twice as likely to be involved in
causing them serious injury and about three times as likely to be
involved in killing them, per mile travelled.
Data already collected shows an increase in the number of casualties
to motorcyclists and other road users as a result of the experiment.
Transport for London should be planning to remove the concession to
motorcyclists: they need to ensure that there is effective enforcement
of bus lane restrictions.
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