Police ask for help to catch driver targeting cyclists...

[albion]

A well known family to the local rag.

http://wiltsglosstandard.co.uk/search/?search=goble

 

[EthelF]

I don't think his previous will be brought up in this case though.

As his previous conviction is not related to this case it can't be brought up in court. But should he be convicted the judge can take it into consideration during sentencing as he would not be eligible for any discount for being "of good character".

 

[TheJDog]

Also, his previous must affect how the police and CPS deal with it before it gets to court.

 

[spen666]

If he pleads not guilty and is then found guilty he'll face a harsher penalty. Unless the jury all hate cyclists.

I don't think it matters on sentence whether the jury love or hate him.
Sentencing is a function of the judge, not a function of the jury

On a minor legal point, he will not face a harsher penalty for pleading not guilty. Discount is given for guilty pleas, not taken away for NG pleas. The end result may appear the same ie he gets a lower sentence on a G plea than if convicted after trial

 

[glenn forger]

"I don't think it matters on sentence whether the jury love or hate him."

Yes, I expect the jury could find him not guilty and it won't make any difference to the sentence. Do you have to get up really early to fit so much stupid into the day?

 

[CopperCyclist]

I am not blind to cases of bad practice by the police but I am not naive enough to think those cases define a whole police service.

The problem is simple and in no way at all limited to cycling*. The media and worryingly more recently, the public too, absolutely love to spin stories based on police corruption and police incompetence. Stories about police simply doing their job, or doing a good job however never get written about.

I have dealt with far too many cyclist RTCs in my service to recount, ranging from damage onlys all the way up to fatals, and I have had no complaints - I've also never had any acknowledgment of 'a good job' (nor felt I needed one btw). My jobs didn't make the papers (except the fatals), and they weren't held up there as an example of how the police work. On many of these jobs, the evidential requirements of our justice system meant we didn't get the result we wanted.

Spread it out further and my colleagues on shift have dealt with just as many (there used to be 50 on our shift, it's now fallen to 25) and in all those jobs, I know of only one where the cyclist wasn't happy and made a complaint - he said he was going to the local paper but I never saw the story. The complaint came to nothing.

"The police" as a whole are not useless. We are sometimes restricted by the rules we have to follow, and by the heavy evidential requirements of our system. There are, and anyways will be exceptions where you deal with a throughly useless officer - these should be dealt with by complaints, they should be raised by the media, they should be tackled to prevent the same thing ever happening again, but they should not be taken as an example of what will usually happen.


*make up a subject - domestics, harassment, theft etc - and Google for police incompetence on that matter and I guarantee you hits. There is no anti cycling conspiracy.

 

[glenn forger]

I have no doubt copper cyclist is conscientious and professional. That said, it's a fact that the CTC compiled reports of police failures, sloppiness and general ineptitude when dealing with cyclist RTCs.

The report, written jointly by the HM Inspectorates of Constabulary (HMIC) and of the Crown Prosecution Service (HMCPSI), looked at how road deaths were handled in a sample of six police force areas.

It particularly criticised the police’s provision of victim support (found to be flawed in 75% of cases), a lack of training for prosecutors, poor record-keeping on CPS internal decision-making, and frequent changes of personnel handling cases – only 38% of cases were handled by the same prosecutor from start to finish.

Since 1985, there has been a 77% drop in convictions in England and Wales for bad driving offences, despite only a 58% drop in killed and serious (KSI) injuries on Britain's roads.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/news/20150204...tough-police-prosecutors-handling-road-deaths

 

[CopperCyclist]

I have no doubt copper cyclist is conscientious and professional. That said, it's a fact that the CTC compiled reports of police failures, sloppiness and general ineptitude when dealing with cyclist RTCs.

And without seeing the actual report, I have no doubt all the faults raised were accurate and needed highlighting to try and avoid it happening again. Did the report however look at every cyclist death and see a disproportionate weighting against the badly dealt with, or did it just focus on the failures? I suspect and would hope that there would be a significant number of incidents dealt with professionally and appropriately.

The graph you link is interesting - is it just cycling deaths or all road deaths (not that it matters)?

Consideration should also be given that traffic police have been absolutely destroyed by the financial environment. We used to have two traffic officers on every shift, which would mean about 20 or more across our force area, with them nearby and ready to respond when you need them.

Now we don't have them on shift, they been centralised and we have six across the force (if none are sick /on holiday), and never nearby. They can also no longer run two serious incidents at the same time.

Bearing that in mind, the fact there are 77 percent less convictions when there should be 58 percent less isn't at all surprising if the cuts to traffic nationwide of about 60 percent is understandable. Note - not acceptable, not in the slightest - but understandable.

 

[glenn forger]

The graph you link is interesting - is it just cycling deaths or all road deaths (not that it matters)?

Consideration should also be given that traffic police have been absolutely destroyed by the financial environment. We used to have two traffic officers on every shift, which would mean about 20 or more across our force area, with them nearby and ready to respond when you need them.

Now we don't have them on shift, they been centralised and we have six across the force (if none are sick /on holiday), and never nearby. They can also no longer run two serious incidents at the same time.

Bearing that in mind, the fact there are 77 percent less convictions when there should be 58 percent less isn't at all surprising if the cuts to traffic nationwide of about 60 percent is understandable. Note - not acceptable, not in the slightest - but understandable.

It's all deaths I think. They should just have "Causing Death by Driving" and let the court settle on culpability, the reluctance of juries to convict is well know, "There but for the Grace of God.."

You're absolutely right about trafpol, that was the point made on Today this morning, it started with Blair moving trafpol to street crime, chavs nicking each others' mobiles, and the numbers have been slashed since then. Law-breaking motorists are extremely unlikely to get caught. Only 3000 speed cameras cover the entire country. At any one point, only 8 trafpol cover the whole of Norfolk and Suffolk.

If you compare the number of drivers who admit using a mobile at the wheel, for instance, with conviction rates fewer than 2% get caught.

 

[CopperCyclist]

It particularly criticised the police’s provision of victim support (found to be flawed in 75% of cases), a lack of training for prosecutors, poor record-keeping on CPS internal decision-making, and frequent changes of personnel handling cases – only 38% of cases were handled by the same prosecutor from start to finish.

Just read that bit again. I don't want to be seen as making excuses here, because I can genuinely say police incompetence probably annoys me even more than most, but of that paragraph the first part, victim support used to be dealt with by FLOs - Force Liason Officers, who were amongst most of the traffic police that were cut (they still exist but in much fewer numbers).

The rest of the failures are all CPS. I note with interest the last point... My cases normally end up in mags as I'm not CID, but in over ten years I would say at least every 9 in 10 CPS prosecutors have told me at court "sorry, only looked at it this morning" and EVERY time without fail a case has been adjourned its a different prosecutor the next time.

I've raised it numerous times as internal complaints and it goes no where.

 

[albion]

Here is an example of our car is king culture.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...speed-gun-was-only-for-research-purposes.html

117mph in a 30mph zone yet the police can only look, they cannot touch.

 

[spen666]

"I don't think it matters on sentence whether the jury love or hate him."

Yes, I expect the jury could find him not guilty and it won't make any difference to the sentence. Do you have to get up really early to fit so much stupid into the day?

Sadly for you, I was replying to your point about sentencing. As I point out sentencing is not a function of the jury. I even quoted it in my original post

If he pleads not guilty and is then found guilty he'll face a harsher penalty. Unless the jury all hate cyclists.

He won't receive any sentence if the jury acquit him.

Still, try to keep up with minor legal concepts like what a judge does and what a jury does.

In the UK we tend not to pass sentence on people who are acquitted

 

[WestStandMan]

The driver discussed at the start of this thread also did a similar thing to me. He swerved across the road when I was a pedestrian. His defence when questioned by Glos Police was that he didn't even see me, he was swerving to avoid a puddle. It was my word v his so it didn't progress.

He does, however, have a good record of escaping charges through technicalities that his brief finds. The CPS and Glos Police can seem either incompetent or deliberately obstructive in dealing with him.

 

[WestStandMan]

If anyone is interested, he is listed for trial by jury at Swindon today 25 Jan. Watch this space.

 

[WestStandMan]

His case commenced at 1130.