Private School

[vernon]

As another aside, my current job is within a Council Children's Services strategic team - no matter how many times we try to say to "Education" that they should concentrate on getting to know the social and emotional needs of pupils and this will result in improvements in education of the pupils, they keep saying that "league tables" are more important to them. Arse and Elbow. Get to know them, then the results will follow you nobbers!!!

The words of a man whose views coincide with the ones that I have attempted to maintain throughout my thirty years of teaching only to be thwarted by management who don't want to jeopardise their sinecure through taking, in their eyes, a huge risk to their league table positions.

 

[Arch]

This is the key. What framework you have at home matters more than the school.

That point was made on Any Answers today, on the subject of more and more testing of kids,and politicians messing about with the curriculum. A teacher was saying that there's not much wrong with the curriculum, and that what really helps is the attitude and support in the home - contrasting kids who arrive at school at 4 or 5 already able to read with those who arrive never having even seen a book.

 

[Night Train]

Having no experience of private/paid education I can only speak from experience.

My home life supported learning at every level. My Mum taught me how to read and write and my Dad taught me maths before I went to school. They encouraged me to follow my interests and abilities and taught me how to learn about the world around me through observation, experiment, and reading.
I went to school and devoured the contents of the library's non fiction section and had an encyclopaedia for an early birthday present. It was read and learnt cover to cover and I still have it on my book shelf.

Going to the local comprehensive was a disappointment for my folks who tried all they could to get me into the grammar school. However, the comprehensive gave me the opportunity to access learning in many different disciplines. I left having made the very best of it I could and I think that would have applied no matter what sort of school it was due to the excellent foundations that my folks built for me that instilled a great learning ethic within me that still holds to this day.

It is often asked of me 'Is there anything you can't do, or don't know about?' and for that I thank my folks for giving me the ability to learn, and the school for giving me the opportunity to learn to apply my learning.

 

[Arch]

Apart from anything else, there's no harm in mixing with a wise selection of kids and learning that there are all sorts in the world, including those who are less able academically, and those who simply don't care.

We've become too focused on academic ability in my mind, so that those who are less able are deemed to be failing, when they may have a latent creative or practical talent that just needs bringing out. Maybe if a generation of two of kids learned that, rather than being pushed to succeed in exams, we'd be a better place. Bring back the old Poly, to give those with a practical skill a chance to succeed and develop as well as the academics at University.

 

[PK99]

And maybe a third - if the proposed private school is a lot better than the local state school, is your child talented enough to benefit from that?
Oh, and a fourth. Private schools can be very snobby and snotty places - from the children rather than the staff - so if your child is from a very different background it could be a miserable experience.

Important caveat "can be". My experience of two private secondary, two state primary, one state middle and one state secondary is of no snobbery and of meeting a similar cross section of parents in each school. Of course the proportions vary across the sectors, but to assume that private schools are the sole preserve of the wealthy is wrong. I've met a goodly proportion of parents at private schools who were making very real sacrifices.

Of the secondaries, Private was the best option at the time Daughter #1 who ended up being a top few % higher flyer in a very selective school. State comp 6th form (granted one of the best in leafy Surrey) was best for Daughter #2. They are a school who focus on and celebrate achievement at all levels of ability.

It really is horses for courses - choose the best school for the individual. If we had known about the School we used for D2 6th form earlier, both would probably have gone there from age 11 and we would have moved into the catchment area. They are a school who focus on and celebrate achievement at all levels of ability. A model comprehensive.

 

[Night Train]

Yes, it isn't always about academic ability. Parents 'should' be the best to judge how their child is developing, academic or practical, or both, and do their part in encouraging that in terms of a good and positive learning ethic. The school then takes that forward and the child gets the best from what is available.

No idea if any of this helps the OP though....

 

[oldfatfool]

Were you solely at private school or mix of both ? If both what were the noticeable, if any, differences ?

State school until 11, fee paying boys Grammar school 11 to 18

Enjoyed every minute of it, much greater discipline (parents signed a disclaimer allowing corporal punishment), better facilities, (both sport and educational, no book sharing etc)

Teachers took time and interest in everyone's education. Still some 'bad-boys' their but no one that was going to (be allowed to) disrupt or waylay anyone else's education.

Good range of contacts to be made (both social and commercial). Definitely a positive when placed on a CV. (One of the positions I held before tossing it off as a postie had directors educated at the same establishment and a second I was offered also!, Not nepotism as I also have B.Sc. but an advantage over other candidates!

My local comprehensive had a very bad reputation at the time which is why my parents made the decision to pay (a good decision as it turned out as a few of my old 'friends' where subsequently involved in the student strikes and riots there in the mid eighties (resulted in smashed windows and a few fires etc) not good.

Having said all this my son went to this comprehensive as its reputation and standing improved massively and the grammar I attended altered its administration (allowing girls in of all things!!!) not to mention increasing their fees to over £10k pa!

Believe they are now a state funded independent selective school so if you can find something like that then best of both worlds!!

No idea of your finances or if you are hoping for a bursary but like buying a fast car a private school costs a lot more to run day to day as well and can't be based on being able to afford the term fees. (trips are likely to be more frequent, more exotic and much dearer. Sports the same, school meals the same etc etc )

To sum up imo, if the school your child is likely to attend as:

A) poor track record or reputation,
B) the catchment area includes an 'undesirable' estate

OR

A) your child as friends that might not be inclined towards education,
B) your child is easily influenced by their peers

and the private school you are considering is a good one then go for it.

BTW I was a day pupil so didn't miss out on parent 'time'

Remember educational establishments can go down as well as up, they are only as good as the administration and the pupils.

 

[oldfatfool]

I've been doing it for 24 yrs, it's nothing to write home about.

I don't know, it meant I was always able to pick my son up from school, attend every sports day, parents evening and plays.

Agreed it as changed a bit now but still, usually home for 2 'ish, reasonable money for what it is, relatively stress free, 15 weeks a year 'holiday' + all bank holidays. No worries about what is happening when I am not there, and no need to rush in when something does happen. Ok you get wet when it rains, cold when it snows, hot when the sun shines, but believe me it is luxuary compared to couped up in an office, fending off irate customers, or pounding the motorways between the two. Oh and it keeps you relatively fit between bike rides as well

Of course selling us off could will completely screw it up and I may have to revert to working for a living

 

[MontyVeda]

You have already contributed to the cost of state education. Why pay twice?

The local state schools may be crap when it comes to educating, so investing a little extra in your child's education may be a worthy investment.

But that does not mean that all fee paying schools are better than state schools... it's up to the OP to research the available options and make their own mind up based on the results of their research.

The high school i went to was crap... it was in the days before league tables and when the league tables came in... its under-performance was a local embarrassment as it came bottom in the county and very close to the bottom in the country. Forewarned with that knowledge, my parents would have probably sent me (and my siblings) to the next nearest school in order to give us a slightly better education.

In an ideal world, state schools should all provide a sound education... but we don't. Some schools are better than others, some school charge fees... given the money and the choice, I'd send my non-existent kids to the best school i could. I may not be able to leave them any worldly goods, but a good education is theirs to keep. Depriving them of that on the grounds that I'm working class and fee paying schools aren't for 'our type' isn't very wise really.

 

[ASC1951]

State school until 11, fee paying boys Grammar school 11 to 18

Opposite way round for me. Fee paying prep school (a Bluecoat School) which I loved, then local free grammar school. The grammar school was first class and, doing Classics, I had a 1:4 teaching ratio at A Level. The only thing even a top public school could have improved on would have been a wider range of sports and more social contacts - but I got both of those at university.

My parents were big on education. Bedtime stories throughout my childhood, a separate room for homework, a house full of books - and no telly. That stuff does make a difference.

 

[PK99]

Yes, it isn't always about academic ability. Parents 'should' be the best to judge how their child is developing, a

Having been a Primary Governor and seen some of the complaints being brought by parents re progress your 'should' is an important caveat. Some parents believe little Jonny to be a genius, despite all evidence to the contrary! And more significantly, some parents cannot accept that Jonny can be Angelic at home yet Devilish at school!

 

[swansonj]

I don't think anyone has yet made the point that the choices we make about educating our children affect more than just ourselves and our own children. If we send our children to a private school, we are contributing to the continuance of the private system, and therefore to the sucking away of resources (of every kind) from the majority of children who will always be educated in the state sector.

Is it reasonable to ask a parent to sacrifice their child's potential future (if that is what a parent feels that in their area the choice to go state rather than private would mean)? No, probably not, all of us who are parents use whatever resources we have to advantage our own children. But equally, the concept that our resources are not ours to use how we wish in an unfettered way without regard for the consequences for others is not exactly novel these days either.

 

[summerdays]

I prefer the state system, probably because I'd hate to have to fit in. I've come across children from both systems through my childrens friendships and other ways. I wouldn't be able to compete on the holiday front, I was talking with some girls at a private school recently about holidays, (as a gap filler), and several mentioned their multiple holidays to foreign places, and one girl was extremely quiet. I decided to just suggest to her, were her parents like me, so that they hadn't finalised their plans yet. I suspect her holiday plans weren't as grand as theirs. My eldest's boyfriend goes to a private school and is very nice, but I notice the skiing holidays he goes on, and the way he is steered towards certain universities and courses.

A friend was telling me about her daughter's uni experience day. She mentioned she had enjoyed all the science experiments during the day but hated the evenings socializing with children from private schools talking about their ponies and the second and third houses etc.

I moved to avoid a sink secondary school for my children, and consider they have gone to a well rounded state school, though you often wonder if you made the right choice.

Three of my nieces went to private school and none of them has ended up with a highly paid job, though interesting ones, National Trust, M+S management, and the last a combination between unemployed and market gardener/stall holder. Not necessarily ones that I would justify the school fees for.

I suspect when it comes down to it I have a chip on my shoulder about the attitude of some privately educated adults I've met and don't want my children to end up like them with a sense of entitlement and self importance.

 

[PK99]

I don't think anyone has yet made the point that the choices we make about educating our children affect more than just ourselves and our own children. If we send our children to a private school, we are contributing to the continuance of the private system, and therefore to the sucking away of resources (of every kind) from the majority of children who will always be educated in the state sector.
.

Very good point, that I should have made in my earlier post. one of the key resources it removes is the very parents most able to lobby for/demand/work for improvements in poor state provision. But it is a tough call if state provision is inadequate and it is your kid you are looking to educate NOW not at some future time.

Our view was to default to the state system where possible, despite being in the fortunate position of being able to afford private from age 4, for the very reason you cite. Being the "at home parent" I fully committed to the process: Classroom volunteer, PTA organiser, Parent Governor. I like to think (and SATS & OFSTED are there to attest, and off the record comments from LEA inspectors support) that the primary school I, and a group of like minded parents, left behind was better than the one our kids started at.

 

[Markymark]

I still believe that teaching is a vocation and the best teachers will be found in state schools as the money doesn't attract the best teachers, just those more driven by money.