Private School

[Primal Scream]

It's not that I think he is too good to mix with locals at all, and, it's not as though the local school is not very good. What I should of mentioned is that he is only 3 at the minute (he has been at the school from when he turned 3) and the local school's starting age is 5. He knows things now that he would just be learning about should he start school at 5 and I think he will get bored quickly.
We read, write, do sums and things with him every day, don't get thinking I'm the worlds most pushiest Dad, he always asks to do it, he enjoys it. When he makes his own games up he loves to involve numbers, spelling, words, whatever, just to make it more challenging.

The schools facilities are second to none, I know we have started off a good thing. We are not made of money, but are putting most of what we have into sending him there. I just wanted people's thoughts as to the difference between the two educations, as he is, and will be, my only child, I have no experience of either.

Some really good replies, thank you.

Firstly let me apologise if you thought my reply was ott.

I can see that you care but imo your kid will miss out on so much by being educated away from the local community. As I said before both my sons went to state schools (comps) and ended up at Warwick (Maths and Economics 2-1 degree) and UEA (Eng lit 2-1 degree).

They got a far more rounded view of life than a private school and saw that others had far less than them. The school worked hard to develop them and all the parents who got involved were appreciated. We had school fetes, quiz nights and sponsored this and that it help to develop a good spirit where older boys out grown uniforms were donated to the school for those who were short of money.

Over 40% of my older sons year went to uni. A school is what YOU and other concerned parents make it along with the staff, all schools want parents who give a damn.

 

[Primal Scream]

It is no threat to you, your life or your liberty.



Indeed it has!




Enjoy

No threat to others, ok consider this scenario.

Peter (P) is the son of Jim and dawn, Jim is a factory worker and earns 25k and works 50 hours a week for this, Dawn works part time in Tesco and earns £5k.

They live in a 3 up 3 down house.

He is a clever lad and started at the local infant school and later the attached primary school where he did well. At 11 he went to the local comp, he entered in a form of 30 children which had about the same amount of pupils for the rest of his state education.

They live in a 3 up 3 down house.

On occasion P needed a laptop, money for trips, new uniforms etc, his family did their best but could not always afford there things as P had a sister two years younger.

P's parents were told he had a smart brain with a gift for maths so he went to sixth form and was recommended for Oxford he got the required grades but failed to get in after the interview. P went to Exeter uni.

Now lets look at Tarquin (T) son of James and Camilla, James is a hedge fund manager with an income of £500K, Camilla is one of the "ladies who lunch" set. T is quite bright but not as bright as P.

They live in a six bedroom detached house in the gin and jag belt.

T starts at a prep school in a class of fourteen and then goes to a public school with the same pupil teacher ratio, T gets everything he needs including private tuition in subjects where he is weaker and has use of a study at home. In his final two years he is "hot housed" to get the grades he requires and is coached in what to do at his entrance interview indeed it is possible his head of year or other teachers went to Oxford and have contacts, T got into Oxford.

If T & P had started in the state sector T would never have had the unfair advantage over P.

On leaving Uni T got a job in finance through his fathers contacts, P has applied for many jobs without success so far.

All a story I know but this is a common outcome.

We cannot be equal in everything but education is one where we can try to level the playing field.

And dont get me started on Queue jumpers using private healthcare with operations carried out in NHS hospitals.

 

[araapatlio]

No threat to others, ok consider this scenario.
...

If T & P had started in the state sector T would never have had the unfair advantage over P.

...
We cannot be equal in everything but education is one where we can try to level the playing field.

There is inequality of opportunity, yes - that doesn't constitute a threat.

Also:
a) the state system is vastly unequal as it stands anyway
b) given that parental involvement is the biggest factor in a child's life chances, you might as well suggest is that kids be taken from their parents at birth and housed in state care to ensure we all get an equal chance in life.
c) Tarquin's daddy would still have the contacts to get him a job whether he went to private school or not.

If T & P had started in the state sector T would never have had the unfair advantage over P.

Yes, he would for a wide variety of reasons.

And dont get me started on Queue jumpers using private healthcare with operations carried out in NHS hospitals.

They are not "queue jumpers" they are paying to remove themselves from the queue and actually reduce the demands on the NHS, they don't get pay to get treatment from the NHS, before those who can't afford it.

 

[Primal Scream]

There is inequality of opportunity, yes - that doesn't constitute a threat.

Also:
a) the state system is vastly unequal as it stands anyway
b) given that parental involvement is the biggest factor in a child's life chances, you might as well suggest is that kids be taken from their parents at birth and housed in state care to ensure we all get an equal chance in life.
c) Tarquin's daddy would still have the contacts to get him a job whether he went to private school or not.



Yes, he would for a wide variety of reasons.






They are not "queue jumpers" they are paying to remove themselves from the queue and actually reduce the demands on the NHS, they don't get pay to get treatment from the NHS, before those who can't afford it.

It constitutes a threat to the chances of P

T would still have an advantage but not as big and advantage if he was state educated.

The contacts thing cannot be overcome completely but the end of the public school old school tie may be a start.

The use of NHS hospitals for private operations is an utter disgrace. A colleague of mine needed a non urgent operation for a sporting injury that was causing him quite a lot of discomfort, the NHS hospital gave him a date about 16 weeks in the future he was also offered the chance to go private within a week with the same surgeon in the same hospital, that is queue jumping.

I do a lot of work in London and Essex hospitals, one such hospital has private wards which are like hotels with access systems to stop the plebs getting in. Utter disgrace.

The Cafe is probably not the place for a debate of this nature tbh.

 

[slowmotion]

I can't afford a Bentley.
Is it the fault of "those bastard Bentley-owning toffs" that I have a twelve year old Vauxhall Combo valued by the company accountant at £28? ( Yes, £28,......and that isn't some kind of tax riff either...)

Well, is it? I'm curious.

 

[araapatlio]

The Cafe is probably not the place for a debate of this nature tbh.

Agreed - 'tis late too. Another time

 

[Primal Scream]

Agreed - 'tis late too. Another time

Enjoyable debate, thank you

 

[PK99]

No threat to others, ok consider this scenario.

Peter (P) is the son of Jim and dawn, Jim is a factory worker and earns 25k and works 50 hours a week for this, Dawn works part time in Tesco and earns £5k.

They live in a 3 up 3 down house.

He is a clever lad and started at the local infant school and later the attached primary school where he did well. At 11 he went to the local comp, he entered in a form of 30 children which had about the same amount of pupils for the rest of his state education.

They live in a 3 up 3 down house.

On occasion P needed a laptop, money for trips, new uniforms etc, his family did their best but could not always afford there things as P had a sister two years younger.

P's parents were told he had a smart brain with a gift for maths so he went to sixth form and was recommended for Oxford he got the required grades but failed to get in after the interview. P went to Exeter uni.

Now lets look at Tarquin (T) son of James and Camilla, James is a hedge fund manager with an income of £500K, Camilla is one of the "ladies who lunch" set. T is quite bright but not as bright as P.

They live in a six bedroom detached house in the gin and jag belt.

T starts at a prep school in a class of fourteen and then goes to a public school with the same pupil teacher ratio, T gets everything he needs including private tuition in subjects where he is weaker and has use of a study at home. In his final two years he is "hot housed" to get the grades he requires and is coached in what to do at his entrance interview indeed it is possible his head of year or other teachers went to Oxford and have contacts, T got into Oxford.

If T & P had started in the state sector T would never have had the unfair advantage over P.

On leaving Uni T got a job in finance through his fathers contacts, P has applied for many jobs without success so far.

All a story I know but this is a common outcome.

We cannot be equal in everything but education is one where we can try to level the playing field.

And dont get me started on Queue jumpers using private healthcare with operations carried out in NHS hospitals.

Your use of extreme invented caricature, devalues your argument to the point of worthlessness as you show it to be base on prejudice and bias not knowledge or experience.

I could give you a list of a dozen close friends, all doing very normal professional jobs and living in very ordinary 3 bed terraced houses and semis in SW London, all (from what they say down the pub) labour voters who opted to use the private sector for Secondary school after using the local state primary, simply because the local state comps were not up to the mark in terms of GCSE results and none at the time had attached 6th forms (with associated teaching and peer modelling benefits) plus there was no academic 6th form college in borough.

 

[Primal Scream]

I can't afford a Bentley.
Is it the fault of "those b****** Bentley-owning toffs" that I have a twelve year old Vauxhall Combo valued by the company accountant at £28? ( Yes, £28,......and that isn't some kind of tax riff either...)

Well, is it? I'm curious.

We cannot have complete equality and indeed it is probably not a good idea but in education and medical treatment (and only those) money should not buy advantage or preferential treatment.

 

[araapatlio]

I do hope that Free schools will enable the state sector to break the shackles of a centralised, top-down system and allow the best schools to really experiment with pedagogy, adapting to styles of learning and new technology.

 

[Primal Scream]

Your use of extreme invented caricature, devalues your argument to the point of worthlessness as you show it to be base on prejudice and bias not knowledge or experience.

I could give you a list of a dozen close friends, all doing very normal professional jobs and living in very ordinary 3 bed terraced houses and semis in SW London, all (from what they say down the pub) labour voters who opted to use the private sector for Secondary school after using the local state primary, simply because the local state comps were not up to the mark in terms of GCSE results and none at the time had attached 6th forms (with associated teaching and peer modelling benefits) plus there was no academic 6th form college in borough.

Of course it is a caricature but has an element of truth non the less, you only need to see the percentage of public school intake compared to state school intake at Oxbridge and the rows about state pupils with the same grades as private schools pupils being given the bums rush to know that is true.

 

[slowmotion]

We cannot have complete equality and indeed it is probably not a good idea but in education and medical treatment (and only those) money should not buy advantage or preferential treatment.

I think you will find that the entire rest of the animal kingdom will do anything in their power to give their sprogs the very best advantages.

Are you expecting humans to be different? It would be good to think so, but I'm not over-optimistic.

 

[Primal Scream]

I do hope that Free schools will enable the state sector to break the shackles of a centralised, top-down system and allow the best schools to really experiment with pedagogy, adapting to styles of learning and new technology.

How do you feel about private schools applying to become free schools?

 

[Primal Scream]

I think you will find that the entire rest of the animal kingdom will do anything in their power to give their sprogs the very best advantages.

Are you expecting humans to be different? It would be good to think so, but I'm not over-optimistic.

And yet I could have afforded, at a push, to send my sons to private school and chose not to. They gained from being at a state school in terms of the understanding of society.

 

[araapatlio]

How do you feel about private schools applying to become free schools?

I don't really know that I have a definite opinion on it... depends on the case - great if it opens up the catchment of a good school to everyone, but not if it doesn't and the taxpayer is essentially subsidising a private education.