Private School

[PK99]

The state has banned , foxhunting, Harecoursing, smoking in shops/bars, the use of certain pesticides, capital punishment, breathalysers.

This has upset or inconvenianced some people but has benifited society as a whole. Your free speech point does not imho stack up

Fox hunting.... Animal cruelty
Smoking in bars etc.... Health and safety of staff
Hare coursing.... Animal cruelty
Pesticides.... Food safety and environmental protection
Capital punishment... Morality and risk of error
Drink driving.... Public safety.

On what criterion would you ban private education?

 

[araapatlio]

Fox hunting.... Animal cruelty
Smoking in bars etc.... Health and safety of staff
Hare coursing.... Animal cruelty
Pesticides.... Food safety and environmental protection
Capital punishment... Morality and risk of error
Drink driving.... Public safety.

On what criterion would you ban private education?

Equal opportunity and perpetuation of privilege most likely. You can make an argument for banning practically anything.

Ban cycling without helmets. Why? Health and safety.
Now, I always wear a helmet and I'll recommend it to anyone and everyone, but I'll be damned if I'll force anyone to wear one (other than my step-daughter of course!).

 

[PK99]

Not quite, the rich and those who seem to think their children are to good and precious to mix with the locals.

Again a flawed assumption, in some areas state provision is so poor, that solid labour voters almost to a family, choose either private education or shipping their kids out of borough. Nothing to do with social mix.

 

[MontyVeda]

The state has banned ... breathalysers.

...

and rightly so... have you any idea how many country pubs have gone out of business since that thing was introduced!

 

[swansonj]

If the state tried to impose such limits on universities, Oxford would simply eschew state funding and evade the cap - making the problem worse. Unless you plan to simply impose it by force irrespective of accepting state funding?

I can't be arsed to look up the figures so anyone who wants to produce figures to counter the following feel free and I will retract...

I don't think there's any way Oxford or any other university could survive without state funding. When people debate cutting loose from the state and becoming private at Oxford, which discussions certainly take place, I think they are just talking about undergraduates, to avoid the cap on tuition fees. They would still be receiving state funding for research. In my hopelessly utopian vision of creating a cap on students from any individual school, participating in that scheme would be a condition of a university receiving any state funding, including from research councils. Oxford with not only no public funding for undergraduates but no public funding for research? I don't think so.

 

[araapatlio]

Again a flawed assumption, in some areas state provision is so poor, that solid labour voters almost to a family, choose either private education or shipping their kids out of borough. Nothing to do with social mix.

My mum and dad couldn't afford to send me private and didn't feel it was right for other reasons, but they made sure I went to a better state school farther away than the local comp. My school was awful, so I don't want to think about what the other school'd've been like.

Fortunately, my parents encouraged me to learn and I had education opportunities at home and a desire to learn. At the end of the day, I achieved in spite of my state school, not because of it.

 

[araapatlio]

I can't be arsed to look up the figures so anyone who wants to produce figures to counter the following feel free and I will retract...

I don't think there's any way Oxford or any other university could survive without state funding. When people debate cutting loose from the state and becoming private at Oxford, which discussions certainly take place, I think they are just talking about undergraduates, to avoid the cap on tuition fees. They would still be receiving state funding for research. In my hopelessly utopian vision of creating a cap on students from any individual school, participating in that scheme would be a condition of a university receiving any state funding, including from research councils. Oxford with not only no public funding for undergraduates but no public funding for research? I don't think so.

We'll have to agree to differ - an authoritarian state takeover of our university sector sounds more like a dystopian nightmare to me

 

[Wobblers]

What do you think the state is...? It is run by a self-appointed elite, for the benefit of the elite.

Would I be considered to be stirring things if I mentioned that the elite just so happens to have been largely privately educated?

 

[araapatlio]

Would I be considered to be stirring things if I mentioned that the elite just so happens to have been largely privately educated?

Indeed they have - and most send their kids to private schools - but correlation is not causation. Cameron is not PM because he went to a poncy private school - Brown (I think/assume), Major and Thatcher all went to state schools.

 

[MontyVeda]

although I'm not sure just how many Old Etonians are 'major players' in the top three parties... this article does suggest there is a bit of a club for the old boys emerging... but it could be pure coincidence.

 

[MontyVeda]

It hasn't banned breathalysers...

oh bugger!

 

[Wobblers]

Indeed they have - and most send their kids to private schools - but correlation is not causation. Cameron is not PM because he went to a poncy private school - Brown (I think/assume), Major and Thatcher all went to state schools.

I don't have the time to look up the relevant figures (so please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!) but the number of people with private educations in the government are over-represented in terms of what would be expected just through chance. This is also true of CEOs in the large publicly listed companies.This comes about as a result of the connections formed and acquaintances met during school - this is acknowledged to be a major advantage of the best private schools over state education.

It seems a little ironic to be support the idea of private education as a freedom when it is in fact one of the mechanisms used to ensure the elite remain in the positions of power they're accustomed to.

 

[Hip Priest]

Only one of my friends went to private school, and he ended up committing suicide in prison. Obviously that's a small sample gleaned from personal experience, but it goes to show that private school doesn't guarantee happiness and success.

 

[araapatlio]

although I'm not sure just how many Old Etonians are 'major players' in the top three parties... this article does suggest there is a bit of a club for the old boys emerging... but it could be pure coincidence.

It is en vogue to bemoan the "Old Etonians" but it simply isn't true - http://www.cityam.com/article/forget-old-etonian-chumocracy-tories-are-their-least-aristocratic-ever

 

[PK99]

Indeed they have - and most send their kids to private schools - but correlation is not causation. Cameron is not PM because he went to a poncy private school - Brown (I think/assume), Major and Thatcher all went to state schools.

Brown went to a state school but benefitted from a short lived scheme of rapid advancement and special tuition for a small academic elite.