Private School

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PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
My two eldest have taken 3 sciences and a foreign language is compulsory at their state school except for certain groups.


Good, clearly a school with the right approach - there are too. Many state schools that do not offer those opportunities.

When D1 was choosing secondary school, the local comp did not offer separate sciences, the local GDST school made separate sciences compulsory.

an further illustration of the differences....

State comp made great play on their attendance management system - we would be emailed within 30 minutes of the start of am or pm session if D1 was not there.

Local GDST school made great play on ensuring that all girls became confident public speakers.
 

Dan B

Disengaged member
Surely a double science award at GCSE is no obstacle to pursuing separate sciences at A-Level? It certainly wasn't in the 1990s when I did exactly that, and I can't believe any university will care that you didn't have separate GCSEs in (say) Physics and Chemistry if you have A-levels in both those subjects.
 
Errr - you are aware that many of the connections those rich people make are during their time at school, do you not?
...
You continually state that correlation is not causation, yet you've not made any attempt to show that there is no correlation between public school and high office. And simply repeating "correlation is not causation" doesn't make the grade, I'm afraid.

Do you think that if you ban private education, these people will not mix socially anyway?

These people already have the social connections, in the absence of forming them in private schools, they will form them in a variety of other way - including in their exclusive "state" school, selected by your ability to pay the whopping great mortgage within the catchment areas. You won't have young Tarquin's going down to the local comp, mixing with Bradley from the council estate.

Connections made at private school is an infinitesimal part of the reason why people who went to private schools dominate our society.
- Their parents tend to be members of the elite and already have connections and access that will give them enhanced options.
- Their parents are naturally pushier than average, keen for their children to succeed (this is not to say private parents are 'better' just that there is a selection bias).
- Their parents are involved and invested in their children's education
- They have far greater access to educational tools at home (including trips to museums etc)
- The education is better and more rounded, there is an emphasis on academic rigour yet also on a variety of sporting and musical activities. Well educated people naturally rise in society.
- Privately educated people are more likely to attend an elite university, due to their academic success and familiarity with entrance procedures.
- "Achieved a 1st at Oxford" looks a lot better on a CV than "Got a 2.1 from a former Polytechnic" which will impress employers and constituency party associations alike.

Ed Miliband is not the leader of the Labour party because of the school he went to, but because of the environment in which he was raised and the connections of his parents. Given his background, he was always likely to be involved in politics. His parents had connections, they were pushy and involved, he had incredible access to the very elite of our society, he was surrounded by intellectuals and learning and he went to a top state school in a very fancy area, he interned in the office of Tony Benn and he went to Oxford.

half?! That is an extraordinary statistic. You may wish to compare that to the general population (which is very much lower).

It is indeed - but I was disputing the contention that the Cabinet is stuffed with old Etonians and the problem is getting worse. "Only" was in comparison to previous Tory governments.

It is getting worse across the rest of society (media, legal profession etc) and it is an increasingly problem in the Labour party, but the fact that the PM went to Eton is a distraction. The reason it is getting worse is nothing to do with private schools or connections made there (it would always have been thus) it is due to the quality of state education - particularly the fact that it holds back gifted and more intelligent pupils.

But we're straying somewhat from the OP - and risking being sent to Coventry CAD! I'll suggest that it's more important to send your children to a good school than a private one. And state schools can be be very good indeed: I was lucky enough to go to a good one. By "good" I don't just mean the quality of the teachers or facilities, it's also a matter of having the right environment which is conducive to learning.


If you are lucky enough to find (and manage to get into) a state school like this, yes.
 

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
Surely a double science award at GCSE is no obstacle to pursuing separate sciences at A-Level? It certainly wasn't in the 1990s when I did exactly that, and I can't believe any university will care that you didn't have separate GCSEs in (say) Physics and Chemistry if you have A-levels in both those subjects.

According to teacher friends who teach a level sciences, yes it is an obstacle/disadvantage now because of syllabus changes.

Plus, when doing separate subjects, kids with no definitive career in mind tend to do their best subjects at a level. From groups doing double award, only those needing (say)biology for medical courses do biology a level.
 

Berties

Fast and careful!
If some one has the ability to learn and the want to succeed they will either state or private,my son goes to a rural secondary school in the next county ,he chose not to take the 11 plus, he has just finished key stage 3 so goes into gcse next year he has acheived 3x 8a and a 8 a/e in maths,that's pretty good,I would say he has 5 friends who's parents pay for damn good schools ,who openly admit they wish their sons could acheive what he has done,my lad aspires to be good,wants more than others,I give him time and help as he requires it and my other son the same,
So for me the attitude is yes private schools do create a structure to learn,but a well rounded child will learn in a good sound environment if encouraged by home and school,this is my opinion for my lads and I am sure that there are many different cases,but has worked for us
 

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
So for me the attitude is yes private schools do create a structure to learn,but a well rounded child will learn in a good sound environment if encouraged by home and school,this is my opinion for my lads and I am sure that there are many different cases,but has worked for us

I agree with that. Sadly too many state comps fail to provide the right environment
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
I do hope that Free schools will enable the state sector to break the shackles of a centralised, top-down system and allow the best schools to really experiment with pedagogy, adapting to styles of learning and new technology.

YOu are Michael Gove and I claim my five pounds.
 
YOu are Michael Gove and I claim my five pounds.


I am not the love-child of Pob and Andy Pandy thank you very much!

I would kindly direct your attention to this post:
Homeschool FTW ;)

Free schools (and Academy schools before them) are a really positive addition - but totally at odds with the rest of Gove's "Let's pretend it is 1950 all over again" education policy.
 

Yellow Fang

Legendary Member
Location
Reading
My step-mother's nephew was sent to a private school. I think it was against his mother's principles initially, but he was being picked on, or she was not happy with the standard of education. He was an only child. His standard of education was such that he got into SOAS (School of Oriental and African Studies), learnt Madarin and Cantonese, then joined a corporate law firm and is earning mega-bucks in the Far East. I think being sent to a private school raises your expectations and makes you aim high. My cousin also has a taste for the high life, which he probably cultivated at school, and he needs to earn a lot of money to maintain it. I bet though, if you went to a school like Eton, or Westminster, and all your friends' parents were stockbrokers, QCs, government minister or army generals that you would regard it as natural to become one of them.
 

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
In other words private schools are bastions of class, privilege and undeserved and unfair advantage


One could also argue on the basis of the previous post, that private schools promote a culture of effort and achievement.

In our case Daughter #1 was very bright but very lazy. An outstanding teacher (after a whole series of coasting first and early middle school teachers had let her coast too) at her middle school taught her the value of academic for the sake of academic and her private secondary gave her the platform to achieve. The difference was that her middle school teacher was the exception, at the GDST school it was the norm.

Some people are fortunate to have access to outstanding state provision. The unacceptable fact is the unacceptable variation in state provision between not jut regions but schools very close together.
That is what needs to be addressed, not the state private sector split.
 

asterix

Comrade Member
Location
Limoges or York
In other words private schools are bastions of class, privilege and undeserved and unfair advantage


Yes, sadly that is the case. It is the genre's Unique Selling Proposition. Strange when you consider that the earliest public schools were set up to educate children of the poor!

For that reason a poor school can pass it self off as better than it is simply because it is 'private'/fee paying.

IMO the decision simply depends on what school your child has access to given your location If the state school is good why not use it? I certainly would not send a child to a boarding school.
 
In other words private schools are bastions of class, privilege and undeserved and unfair advantage
Not necessarily, a very large percentage of my wage goes to the School as fees, we mainly live on my wife's salary.



Granted, some of her classmates are the sons/daughters of Solicitors, financial whizz-kids, company directors/owners, Hospital consultants, etc
 
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